Horse Charter Sac Sader

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Horse Charter Sac Sader

Post by Vivitron » Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:04 pm

Image

Wore double con scepter, double con rings, charmed/con neck. Probably should have exchanged 2 con suffixes for bleed. With 8 def/5 resist armor (with 8/windlords of course, but wearing a helmet not a hat), and a def/pd shield you break 1800 def when you drop to dstance, and have 75/50/50 melee resist if you take all one suffix, or you can spread it. Sacs for a little over 800. ~4500 hp/~5100 raged.

You're most effective when you can be chaining sac. It has half the range of a typical heal so position yourself accordingly.

Blessing of the healing hands is an ~80% percent heal, but its range is about 10 units. Occasionally you get a chance to % someone who is standing right on top of you, but that opportunity was rare enough that I ended up using it on myself to negate sac damage in some fights.

On arac I suspect that it usually makes more sense to build a dwarf and ignore defense, but this build was effective given the lore restrictions and the play style of our opponents. If I ever remade a similar character I might focus more on its damage: I was not a priority target in the eyes of most guilds.

Charter Specific Decisions:
No bard -> Taint of Madness, Beorc Rune, Benediction of Saint Lorne (damage chant)

Defense Specific Decisions:
Lucky, training HA past 100%, defense prefixes on armor and shield, Holy Mantle (self def buff)

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Re: Horse Charter Sac Sader

Post by Moco » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:30 am

KC <3

Personally would've dropped block to 130-135 & put those trains into HA & guessing by the runes/trains 1400ish mana pool?
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Re: Horse Charter Sac Sader

Post by Beula » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:13 pm

775 mana on the screenshot

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Re: Horse Charter Sac Sader

Post by Vivitron » Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:20 pm

Thats before 85 spi from conc and noble inspiration. I ran oom a few times on him, but only at the end of long fights, probably having been lazy about walk mode. I don't remember how big his mana pool was.

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Re: Horse Charter Sac Sader

Post by Moco » Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:27 am

Beula wrote:775 mana on the screenshot
beula never fails to make a good post :roll:
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Re: Horse Charter Sac Sader

Post by Beula » Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:12 pm

Moco wrote:
Beula wrote:775 mana on the screenshot
beula never fails to make a good post :roll:
Making fun of me for pointing out the obvious?

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Re: Horse Charter Sac Sader

Post by Moco » Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:07 am

Beula wrote:
Moco wrote:
Beula wrote:775 mana on the screenshot
beula never fails to make a good post :roll:
Making fun of me for pointing out the obvious?
leaning more towards the fact you can tell it's from a recording :lol:
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Re: Horse Charter Sac Sader

Post by Omnius » Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:01 pm

I might have gone with resist jewels instead of double con. Especially since it's a solo/ small group template(beorc instead of bard reliant)

I would never use nyth on a healer sader. I would have done something along the lines of more restoration and blessed mending. Lucky seems pointless based on your def (1800 in def stance isn't really that impressive, I would have gone the resist route, you might have been happier with resist/int jewels maybe for a def build). Trained by master of arms doesn't really seem worthwhile.

Your template just seems a little unfocused. If you want a def sader, go fighter. If you want a healer sader, go resist. You'll be happier about it.

If this template was fighter based, I would almost agree with it. As it is, it just seems like you're building against yourself rather than complimenting what you want.

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Re: Horse Charter Sac Sader

Post by Vivitron » Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:16 am

Part of the motivation for this build was that I thought the move to 5.5/5 armor from 4+4.5/2.5 armor on the last patch opened the door for "moderate def" builds, and I wanted to try one out. The amount of physical resist you give up for going def is now roughly equal to the amount of resist given by an HA helmet. For example, this build has significantly better physical resists than the Omnicru build.

I support your comments on the jewels. It's always best to swap 'em based on likely opponents. Con wasn't bad against mino meat.

I took beorc because there are no bards on the cent charter. I didn't try this build on the small scale.

It has a narrow focus in my view. Cast sacrifice, don't die to meat.

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Re: Horse Charter Sac Sader

Post by Omnius » Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:43 am

if you do the support role of cast sac, then pick up the small group heal and some restoration.

side note: it doesn't have better physical resists than the omnicru build. Fairly certain that build had significantly better resists.

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Re: Horse Charter Sac Sader

Post by Vivitron » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:38 pm

Omnius wrote:if you do the support role of cast sac, then pick up the small group heal and some restoration.
I realized skipping resto would be an unpopular choice. I seem to be one of the few people who doesn't like PoM.

Omnius wrote:side note: it doesn't have better physical resists than the omnicru build. Fairly certain that build had significantly better resists.
Going by your post, between the hat, no tough hide, and 45 hp suffixes you passed on 56.6 physical resist.

You Posted:
50.6 slashing
50.5 Crushing
54.1 Piercing

The LJL build: the prefixes cost 33 resist. In the ss'd gear:
65
50
60

(Although ideally that would be swapped between appropriate suits of 75/50/50.)

I don't bring that up to compare the builds. Omnicru was clearly more suited for a lot of situations. I bring it up to highlight that the physical resist cost of making a def build is no longer crippling.

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Re: Horse Charter Sac Sader

Post by ARMS » Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:26 am

I like screenshot builder :)

new korean sb user

more fast learn need screenshot :D
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Re: Horse Charter Sac Sader

Post by Siren » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:02 pm

good protip ARMS the noobs learn faster with pictures

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Re: Horse Charter Sac Sader

Post by Heyzeuss » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:45 pm

Vivitron wrote:[ Image ]

Wore double con scepter, double con rings, charmed/con neck. Probably should have exchanged 2 con suffixes for bleed. With 8 def/5 resist armor (with 8/windlords of course, but wearing a helmet not a hat), and a def/pd shield you break 1800 def when you drop to dstance, and have 75/50/50 melee resist if you take all one suffix, or you can spread it. Sacs for a little over 800. ~4500 hp/~5100 raged.

You're most effective when you can be chaining sac. It has half the range of a typical heal so position yourself accordingly.

Blessing of the healing hands is an ~80% percent heal, but its range is about 10 units. Occasionally you get a chance to % someone who is standing right on top of you, but that opportunity was rare enough that I ended up using it on myself to negate sac damage in some fights.

On arac I suspect that it usually makes more sense to build a dwarf and ignore defense, but this build was effective given the lore restrictions and the play style of our opponents. If I ever remade a similar character I might focus more on its damage: I was not a priority target in the eyes of most guilds.

Charter Specific Decisions:
No bard -> Taint of Madness, Beorc Rune, Benediction of Saint Lorne (damage chant)

Defense Specific Decisions:
Lucky, training HA past 100%, defense prefixes on armor and shield, Holy Mantle (self def buff)
Awful mana pool, no resist rings?!!?!?!?!?, No restoration?!?!?!?!?!, No blessed mending?!?!?!!? This might as well have been fighter, no offense but this is a pretty poor build.

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Re: Horse Charter Sac Sader

Post by Omnius » Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:34 pm

Heyzeuss wrote:
Vivitron wrote:[ Image ]

Wore double con scepter, double con rings, charmed/con neck. Probably should have exchanged 2 con suffixes for bleed. With 8 def/5 resist armor (with 8/windlords of course, but wearing a helmet not a hat), and a def/pd shield you break 1800 def when you drop to dstance, and have 75/50/50 melee resist if you take all one suffix, or you can spread it. Sacs for a little over 800. ~4500 hp/~5100 raged.

You're most effective when you can be chaining sac. It has half the range of a typical heal so position yourself accordingly.

Blessing of the healing hands is an ~80% percent heal, but its range is about 10 units. Occasionally you get a chance to % someone who is standing right on top of you, but that opportunity was rare enough that I ended up using it on myself to negate sac damage in some fights.

On arac I suspect that it usually makes more sense to build a dwarf and ignore defense, but this build was effective given the lore restrictions and the play style of our opponents. If I ever remade a similar character I might focus more on its damage: I was not a priority target in the eyes of most guilds.

Charter Specific Decisions:
No bard -> Taint of Madness, Beorc Rune, Benediction of Saint Lorne (damage chant)

Defense Specific Decisions:
Lucky, training HA past 100%, defense prefixes on armor and shield, Holy Mantle (self def buff)
Awful mana pool, no resist rings?!!?!?!?!?, No restoration?!?!?!?!?!, No blessed mending?!?!?!!? This might as well have been fighter, no offense but this is a pretty poor build.
Yeah the use of nyth instead of blessed mending hurts my head.

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Re: Horse Charter Sac Sader

Post by Moco » Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:08 am

Heyzeuss wrote:
Vivitron wrote:[ Image ]

Wore double con scepter, double con rings, charmed/con neck. Probably should have exchanged 2 con suffixes for bleed. With 8 def/5 resist armor (with 8/windlords of course, but wearing a helmet not a hat), and a def/pd shield you break 1800 def when you drop to dstance, and have 75/50/50 melee resist if you take all one suffix, or you can spread it. Sacs for a little over 800. ~4500 hp/~5100 raged.

You're most effective when you can be chaining sac. It has half the range of a typical heal so position yourself accordingly.

Blessing of the healing hands is an ~80% percent heal, but its range is about 10 units. Occasionally you get a chance to % someone who is standing right on top of you, but that opportunity was rare enough that I ended up using it on myself to negate sac damage in some fights.

On arac I suspect that it usually makes more sense to build a dwarf and ignore defense, but this build was effective given the lore restrictions and the play style of our opponents. If I ever remade a similar character I might focus more on its damage: I was not a priority target in the eyes of most guilds.

Charter Specific Decisions:
No bard -> Taint of Madness, Beorc Rune, Benediction of Saint Lorne (damage chant)

Defense Specific Decisions:
Lucky, training HA past 100%, defense prefixes on armor and shield, Holy Mantle (self def buff)
Awful mana pool, no resist rings?!!?!?!?!?, No restoration?!?!?!?!?!, No blessed mending?!?!?!!? This might as well have been fighter, no offense but this is a pretty poor build.
The pic is from a recording thus the Skah! mana pool, given the knight buff and conc I would estimate it at about 1400 range. The build was also made on lore and at the time it was in action it was all meat fights so the double con would make sense in my eyes. As for resto/bm thing well I can say it's pretty sad to not have that
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Re: Horse Charter Sac Sader

Post by Heyzeuss » Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:22 am

Moco wrote:The pic is from a recording thus the Skah! mana pool, given the knight buff and conc I would estimate it at about 1400 range. The build was also made on lore and at the time it was in action it was all meat fights so the double con would make sense in my eyes. As for resto/bm thing well I can say it's pretty sad to not have that
My r3 with no conc pot and zero gear has a better mana pool than that, lol

Even against meat groups though, no bleed resist? no poison resist? bleh

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Re: Horse Charter Sac Sader

Post by Omnius » Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:51 pm

Also, isn't SBEMU only doing 1 ARAC server and no lore?

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Re: Horse Charter Sac Sader

Post by cashmoneyflow » Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:53 pm

Omnius wrote:Also, isn't SBEMU only doing 1 ARAC server and no lore?
Not sure if this has been 100% decided on yet tbh. I personally like the challenge of a lore server but I enjoy arac as well.
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Re: Horse Charter Sac Sader

Post by Omnius » Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:56 pm

cashmoneyflow wrote:
Omnius wrote:Also, isn't SBEMU only doing 1 ARAC server and no lore?
Not sure if this has been 100% decided on yet tbh. I personally like the challenge of a lore server but I enjoy arac as well.
I don't have anything against Lore. I find it fun as well. BUT I was under the impression that it was decided because ARAC has the greatest following and they only wanted 1 server so as to have a critical mass population.

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Re: Horse Charter Sac Sader

Post by Vivitron » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:23 pm

Omnius wrote:
Heyzeuss wrote:
Vivitron wrote:[ Image ]

Wore double con scepter, double con rings, charmed/con neck. Probably should have exchanged 2 con suffixes for bleed. With 8 def/5 resist armor (with 8/windlords of course, but wearing a helmet not a hat), and a def/pd shield you break 1800 def when you drop to dstance, and have 75/50/50 melee resist if you take all one suffix, or you can spread it. Sacs for a little over 800. ~4500 hp/~5100 raged.

You're most effective when you can be chaining sac. It has half the range of a typical heal so position yourself accordingly.

Blessing of the healing hands is an ~80% percent heal, but its range is about 10 units. Occasionally you get a chance to % someone who is standing right on top of you, but that opportunity was rare enough that I ended up using it on myself to negate sac damage in some fights.

On arac I suspect that it usually makes more sense to build a dwarf and ignore defense, but this build was effective given the lore restrictions and the play style of our opponents. If I ever remade a similar character I might focus more on its damage: I was not a priority target in the eyes of most guilds.

Charter Specific Decisions:
No bard -> Taint of Madness, Beorc Rune, Benediction of Saint Lorne (damage chant)

Defense Specific Decisions:
Lucky, training HA past 100%, defense prefixes on armor and shield, Holy Mantle (self def buff)
Awful mana pool, no resist rings?!!?!?!?!?, No restoration?!?!?!?!?!, No blessed mending?!?!?!!? This might as well have been fighter, no offense but this is a pretty poor build.
Yeah the use of nyth instead of blessed mending hurts my head.
Nyth is trained, but mostly not used. I'm surprised by the implicit suggestion that casting BM is a wise use of a sader's time and I flatly disagree with it.

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Re: Horse Charter Sac Sader

Post by Vivitron » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:31 pm

Heyzeuss wrote: Awful mana pool
I feel obligated to point out to you that this is the sader forum, not the priest forum.

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Re: Horse Charter Sac Sader

Post by Vivitron » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:36 pm

Heyzeuss wrote:no resist rings?!!?!?!?!?
Words seem to have little effect, so I will try a picture. (You will have to read the words in the picture to understand it, though. Perhaps it will be unhelpful after all.)

Image

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Re: Horse Charter Sac Sader

Post by Kris » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:12 pm

Kenaryn's Cohort is great memories :D. I loved playing next to this sader during my time in KC, made my life a lot easier.
Moco wrote:Personally would've dropped block to 130-135 & put those trains into HA
I think the PD would be more beneficial than the def from HA.
Vivitron wrote:I'm surprised by the implicit suggestion that casting BM is a wise use of a sader's time and I flatly disagree with it.
I agree.
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Re: Horse Charter Sac Sader

Post by Omnius » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:24 pm

Vivitron wrote:
Omnius wrote:
Heyzeuss wrote:
Awful mana pool, no resist rings?!!?!?!?!?, No restoration?!?!?!?!?!, No blessed mending?!?!?!!? This might as well have been fighter, no offense but this is a pretty poor build.
Yeah the use of nyth instead of blessed mending hurts my head.
Nyth is trained, but mostly not used. I'm surprised by the implicit suggestion that casting BM is a wise use of a sader's time and I flatly disagree with it.
BM is better than Nyth for a healer sader. It's also the pre-req to a group heal that you might actually be using. The fact of training nyth at all on this build makes no sense but occasional use of blessed mending might be justified, though probably not in a standard context, you'd more likely see it following an evac summons or in an awkward skirmish situation. Whereas there would never be a time you would use nyth over BM.

As for your flat disagreement, you've trained nyth on a healer based crusader. This is a spell you have admitted you don't use. Also, you've heavily focused on defense on a centaur healer crusader with results that would be subpar even if you were utilizing a #1 crusader shrine for additional HA buff to the exclusion of a proven better route focusing on resistances.

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Re: Horse Charter Sac Sader

Post by Vivitron » Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:24 am

Omnius wrote:
Vivitron wrote:
Omnius wrote:
Yeah the use of nyth instead of blessed mending hurts my head.
Nyth is trained, but mostly not used. I'm surprised by the implicit suggestion that casting BM is a wise use of a sader's time and I flatly disagree with it.
BM is better than Nyth for a healer sader. It's also the pre-req to a group heal that you might actually be using. The fact of training nyth at all on this build makes no sense but occasional use of blessed mending might be justified, though probably not in a standard context, you'd more likely see it following an evac summons or in an awkward skirmish situation. Whereas there would never be a time you would use nyth over BM.

As for your flat disagreement, you've trained nyth on a healer based crusader. This is a spell you have admitted you don't use.
BM may be a better heal, but is it a better heal at 43% resto and 20 trains? That is the context in which I trained nyth -- a few extra trains spent on a situationally useful utility.
Also, you've heavily focused on defense on a centaur healer crusader with results that would be subpar even if you were utilizing a #1 crusader shrine for additional HA buff to the exclusion of a proven better route focusing on resistances.
You never acknowledged my post pointing out that this build has significantly better physical resistances than the omnicru build. I think you may be in denial about what tradeoffs this build actually made to get defense. 1 spell resist prefix, 33 physical resist, resto, and a few int. That's what it gives up.

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Re: Horse Charter Sac Sader

Post by Omnius » Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:48 pm

Vivitron wrote:
Omnius wrote:
Vivitron wrote: Nyth is trained, but mostly not used. I'm surprised by the implicit suggestion that casting BM is a wise use of a sader's time and I flatly disagree with it.
BM is better than Nyth for a healer sader. It's also the pre-req to a group heal that you might actually be using. The fact of training nyth at all on this build makes no sense but occasional use of blessed mending might be justified, though probably not in a standard context, you'd more likely see it following an evac summons or in an awkward skirmish situation. Whereas there would never be a time you would use nyth over BM.

As for your flat disagreement, you've trained nyth on a healer based crusader. This is a spell you have admitted you don't use.
BM may be a better heal, but is it a better heal at 43% resto and 20 trains? That is the context in which I trained nyth -- a few extra trains spent on a situationally useful utility.
Also, you've heavily focused on defense on a centaur healer crusader with results that would be subpar even if you were utilizing a #1 crusader shrine for additional HA buff to the exclusion of a proven better route focusing on resistances.
You never acknowledged my post pointing out that this build has significantly better physical resistances than the omnicru build. I think you may be in denial about what tradeoffs this build actually made to get defense. 1 spell resist prefix, 33 physical resist, resto, and a few int. That's what it gives up.
Your physical resistances reflect only that the game has changed massively since the Omnicru build was released. In fact, it reflects the fact that armor was altered heavil. So a post that you want me to address is your meaningless attempt to compare pre resist changes to post resist changes. Yes, the armor changes made it easy to get higher resists and I didn't update the Omnicru template on the forums. As for the fact that Omnicru the two characters would even be compared, Omnicru wasn't a sac sader. Despite garnering controversy, that template was well balanced, well respected in the field by virtually all and the result was that many new players rolled it and modified versions of it to really learn a substantial degree about the mechanics of the game.... As for not acknowledging your post, I'm not sure I ever read it or noticed such a comment. I'm not sure why you've decided to act as though this is some sort of pissing contest but I'll try to shed some helpful light on how shadowbane works.

You've clearly indicated this is a support character, thus you've built a sac sader, a classic group support toon. A good sac sader will generally have a group heal to contribute to the group when he's not casting sac on a specific toon. It's just common sense that you ought to be able to contribute to your group where possible. You're not casting only sac on a sac sader unless you expect to always have someone shadow mantled or you're basically trying to keep someone who is being focus fired alive at every moment of every fight. Lack of a group heal means you're half of a group healer based character. Blessed mending unlocks a perfectly good group heal at 20. If I recall correctly, and the wiki is accurate, it should remove a bleed when blessed mending is at 40. In the event you encounter a group using AoEs, you offer basically nothing to the group and you've built a character whose purpose is to support a group. You understand this is an egregious deficiency right? If you're wondering where the rest of your points can come from, you appear to have a bunch to spare from heavy armor and holy mantle. In addition, you claim this was a template designed to counter meat groups. Did you encounter many meat groups that had nobody in them to use def cut?

Reading further back, it's clear you neglected to have a group heal for preferential reasons, which basically means you built a group character and decided to skip a key group power. Nyth would be a reasonable spell if you were using a fighter based crusader and did not have blessed mending. I'm sorry if you disagree but you're simply in the wrong for using nyth on a healer based character. Nyth is not situationally useful. You're a healer based character. Blessed mending is useful. Of course you need more restoration but you have wasted trains all over the place that can supply those trains.

And defense on a character whose purpose is really limited to banes and organized fights is silly. If you're making a high def toon, go high def. If you can't get high def, don't make a high def toon. This is especially true in a group context where anyone with even the most mild competency will use a def cut on you. It'd be an odd day where a high def character couldn't be hit at a bane. You don't need holy mantle or lucky because your def is meaningless where your character is intended to be. Really your entire character creation traits could be redone to greater effect. I'm not sure why you're so defense of a build that you posted here to be critiqued and get more feedback on.

If I get the time to get back into the game, I'll happily show you how to modify your template and make it better.

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Re: Horse Charter Sac Sader

Post by Vivitron » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:43 am

I tried a novel build enabled by the last patch, found that it works in practice, and shared it. Your telling me that what I really want is a cookie cutter build. That the proven build can't work. That I should excuse your inability to understand how changes increased this build's viability because comparing this patch to last is apples to oranges.

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Re: Horse Charter Sac Sader

Post by Dyson » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:13 am

Vivitron for Crusader Advocate. I can't remember who used to be the Crusader Advocate, but he or she was probably a terrible Crusader Advocate so let's get a new Crusader Advocate to be the Crusader Advocate.
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Re: Horse Charter Sac Sader

Post by Kris » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:40 am

Omnius wrote:Reading further back, it's clear you neglected to have a group heal for preferential reasons, which basically means you built a group character and decided to skip a key group power.
PoM is a terrible spell.
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