UA Vamp Assassin-Critique

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Kaycer
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UA Vamp Assassin-Critique

Post by Kaycer » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:59 pm

Need some looks at my latest build, previously was Shade however I found it to be extremely stat pt limited. The weapons are proc based hence the high int.
Peerless of ob
Peerless of vamp

Race: Vamp
Starting Runes:
Lightning Reflexes
Taught by Master thief
Lucky
Stat Runes:
40 dex
20 int

Stats Lev 75
dex 180
con 35
int 140


Disc:
Belgosh
BH

PT Spread
LA-167(Gold)
SM-123
UA- 124
UAM-135
Fort- 20(GM)
Sneak- GM
BS- GM
Stun- GM
Steal Breath- 15
SM- GM
Slayers -1 train

Det hidden- GM


Any suggestions for improvement?
These are the stats with just conc def stance(which is where I spend most my time), still need to finalize 1-2 pcs of jewels still have some 2 6/10 rings. No vorg just standard +8 assassin junk. Procs range from 300-800 depending on which proc goes off and the target. (The poison is on the lower end 300-500)

HP- 1892
STA- 403
Def- 2086
atr- 1404
28/20/20

I've been considering lowering UA masteries in favor or blind but I just don't seem to use it enough. normally if I can get a hold of a prime target they cant survive my stun+BP, so I have no need for the blind. I've always thought it to be one of the most useful tools for an assassin.

Some advice appreciated

Khal
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Re: UA Vamp Assassin-Critique

Post by Khal » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:15 pm

Needs a complete respec IMO:

-You sacrifice a ton of your stat points for dex, but aren't even breaking 2.1k def. 1 fire dot, any dot+bleed, or any UA toon are going to kill you in 1 second.
-You are one of the slowest rogue in the game, and yet you don't have your snare GM'd
-only 1 fort trained?
-UAM to 70 (why was it higher than your UA??)
-<2k hp and no drain?
-no blind?
-you have precise stance, a Blind, a GM def cut, and are dual wielding, the only spell you have with a hit roll from SM is the snare (which you didn't GM) why are you spiking SM? (don't talk about stun, see below)
-TBMT is a Skah! rune
-One of a UA rogues best abilities is to lock down a target. With a 27 stun immunity, If they live through your 9s stun, that ability is gone. If you are using the stun for ignore passive d, strigoi gives you a great spell for that, which costs less points.

Take all of that into consideration, gimme a re-write, and I'll help you out.
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Re: UA Vamp Assassin-Critique

Post by unfringed » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:14 pm

Khal wrote:-One of a UA rogues best abilities is to lock down a target. With a 27 stun immunity, If they live through your 9s stun, that ability is gone. If you are using the stun for ignore passive d, strigoi gives you a great spell for that, which costs less points.
now that's some trash advice

Khal
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Re: UA Vamp Assassin-Critique

Post by Khal » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:18 pm

unfringed wrote:
Khal wrote:-One of a UA rogues best abilities is to lock down a target. With a 27 stun immunity, If they live through your 9s stun, that ability is gone. If you are using the stun for ignore passive d, strigoi gives you a great spell for that, which costs less points.
now that's some quality trash advice

Shiiit, I've done it with and without. I prefer with, but ATM he is super duper low on points. I want to see what he comes up with first, before we see if we can work it in. That being said, I've made them both work very well, one style just takes a little more finesse.

I do however appreciate your constructiveness, as well as your grade-a personality.


Edit: that being said, everything else (not related to the stun) seems correct, yes? It has been a verry long time
Since I've played an RA, I was just commenting on what I saw as glaring.
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Re: UA Vamp Assassin-Critique

Post by unfringed » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:24 pm

He's not low on points, he's just misusing them. and lol@stunless assassins, that's almost as bad as Viscuss's dex based cloth bladeweaver.

The only way this could be salvaged is by going Irekei for the SD atr cut, and even then it's going to be terribad.

Khal
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Re: UA Vamp Assassin-Critique

Post by Khal » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:28 pm

High d on an RA is a nono in my book, unless you're SD. Stuns are very important on any too , but like
I said, I wanted to see what he came up with, before we tried to fit it in, because as you said, there are a LOT of changes that need to be made.
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Kaycer
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Re: UA Vamp Assassin-Critique

Post by Kaycer » Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:10 pm

Khal wrote:Needs a complete respec IMO:

-You sacrifice a ton of your stat points for dex, but aren't even breaking 2.1k def. 1 fire dot, any dot+bleed, or any UA toon are going to kill you in 1 second.
-You are one of the slowest rogue in the game, and yet you don't have your snare GM'd
-only 1 fort trained?
-UAM to 70 (why was it higher than your UA??)
-<2k hp and no drain?
-no blind?
-you have precise stance, a Blind, a GM def cut, and are dual wielding, the only spell you have with a hit roll from SM is the snare (which you didn't GM) why are you spiking SM? (don't talk about stun, see below)
-TBMT is a Skah! rune
-One of a UA rogues best abilities is to lock down a target. With a 27 stun immunity, If they live through your 9s stun, that ability is gone. If you are using the stun for ignore passive d, strigoi gives you a great spell for that, which costs less points.

Take all of that into consideration, gimme a re-write, and I'll help you out.

Your points are valid, thanks for the advice.

I figured I was screwing some things up, just didn't seem to be doing what I expected.

I just had not trained the other fort yet, was going to take pts from UAM to do so. Forgot to add that. Not sure where I could get the pts for the drain.

I took no blind because of the def cut from UA being enough to hit anyone. my atr is 2200 in precise which is a bit overkill.

Not shooting for high def seems doable with blind into the mix. I think I may have just fallen into the thinking that all rogues need to have high def/dex to survive, not only that the Skah! hp pool from vamp made it seem more required.

Why is TBMT a Skah! rune?

I have no problems rerolling, takes no time at all. So what would you suggest?

Side note, this was my 2nd attempt at a RA, so yes it sucks.

I'll repsec and repost the result. May be salvageable.

Kaycer
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Re: UA Vamp Assassin-Critique

Post by Kaycer » Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:17 pm

I spiked SM because of the HR on the stun, and the focus line for the amor however the increase in def seems almost non-existant.

Kaycer
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Re: UA Vamp Assassin-Critique

Post by Kaycer » Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:27 pm

Alright

PT Spread
LA-155
SM-97
UA- 120
UAM-70
Fort- 20(GM)
ele fort- 20
Sneak- GM
BS- GM
Stun- GM
Steal Breath- GM
SM- GM
Slayers -1 train
Drain -20 GM
Blind - GM

Det hidden- GM


1 Problem, 1200 atr in precise on the drain due to bloodcraft being so low.

Here are the other stats with the changes
(def Stance)
Def 1993
atr 1216
SMatr
1187


Precise

def 1703
atr 1909
SMatr 1846


EDIT* Client was bugged had 15 more pts to spend. Put them into bloodcraft now I'm sitting 1463 atr in precise for the drain.

Khal
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Re: UA Vamp Assassin-Critique

Post by Khal » Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:02 pm

Much better! Couple more things:
1-take UA down to 110
2-is poison proc GM?
2-do you has dodge trained? Since you should be permanently stun immune, dodge is a huge boon.
3-as I was saying to unhinged earlier, I'm not a fan of high def RAs. Seėng a that seems to be what you're looking for, I didn't comment on it. If that's what you want, then by all means keep it that way. I much prefer a high int/con with resist La, and tons of dodge.
4-like I was saying to the most polite gentleman earlier, it's been a very long time side I have touched an RA (I much prefer the MA), but it looks much better to me, unless I missed something major, which is possible.
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Undeadkiller wrote:Everyone is entitled to thier own opinions and shouldn't be told what they can or cannot think and or can or cannot say. It goes against the Human Rights Act.
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Kaycer
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Re: UA Vamp Assassin-Critique

Post by Kaycer » Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:13 pm

Khal wrote:Much better! Couple more things:
1-take UA down to 110
2-is poison proc GM?
2-do you has dodge trained? Since you should be permanently stun immune, dodge is a huge boon.
3-as I was saying to unhinged earlier, I'm not a fan of high def RAs. Seėng a that seems to be what you're looking for, I didn't comment on it. If that's what you want, then by all means keep it that way. I much prefer a high int/con with resist La, and tons of dodge.
4-like I was saying to the most polite gentleman earlier, it's been a very long time side I have touched an RA (I much prefer the MA), but it looks much better to me, unless I missed something major, which is possible.
The poison proc is not gm because I was under the assumption it only increases the duration.

Dodge is not trained because it seems to be broken, I've tested it and it doesn't seem to dodge as frequently as I remember.

I also prefer mage assassin but shadow bolt is broken, so i had to go rogue.

Take ua to 110 then put the 10 pts into blood craft for mroe atr? or do what with said 10pts?

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Re: UA Vamp Assassin-Critique

Post by unfringed » Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:21 pm

This isn't going to work well as a vampire, no matter how much you tweak it. Without an atr cut your defense goes to waste, and for a class as short on trains as rogue assassins are, adding the costs of both defense AND vampire on top of that is spreading your build way too thin.

If you're set on def, consider rerolling as an Irekei, but like Khal said skipping defense is the better choice by far. You'll get more out of resists, health, chilling shadows and stun/powerblock than mediocre and expensive defense and a measly 1800 hp.

Kaycer
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Re: UA Vamp Assassin-Critique

Post by Kaycer » Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:32 pm

I'm not dead set on defense, I'll try with hp/res. Any suggestions on race for a build like that?

Khal
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Re: UA Vamp Assassin-Critique

Post by Khal » Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:37 pm

Aelf/human/aracoix

Aelf for snare immune
Human for trains
Aracoix for flight, heal, root

I honestly think I could make a vamp build work, but it would be for pure candy, and not as viable as the others listed. Also, trains in proc raise damage on it.
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Undeadkiller wrote:Everyone is entitled to thier own opinions and shouldn't be told what they can or cannot think and or can or cannot say. It goes against the Human Rights Act.
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Khal
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Re: UA Vamp Assassin-Critique

Post by Khal » Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:39 pm

Also my bad if I overreacted infringed, having a Skah! day.
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Re: UA Vamp Assassin-Critique

Post by unfringed » Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:42 pm

Nephs are also really solid, as they hands down have the best base stats for an RA, and that's on top of having flight, and with all the bird rogues out there I'd warn against playing anything melee based that doesn't have flight. Vamp would be delish if casters were popular, but unfortunately they're not so they're not.

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Re: UA Vamp Assassin-Critique

Post by Kaycer » Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:46 pm

unfringed wrote:Nephs are also really solid, as they hands down have the best base stats for an RA, and that's on top of having flight, and with all the bird rogues out there I'd warn against playing anything melee based that doesn't have flight. Vamp would be delish if casters were popular, but unfortunately they're not so they're not.
I wish this wasn't true. I'm so annoyed with all the bird scouts etc. This toon as a neph mage assassin, rerolled to RA because of the shadow bolt issue. Never crossed my mind to go neph rogue.

Thanks for all the advice, I'll prob mess around with the vamp for awhile then give the hp/res build a shot down the road.

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Re: UA Vamp Assassin-Critique

Post by Khal » Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:52 pm

Bored at work, whipped something up real quick:

Human
Trav. Performer
Warlords Page
Tough as Nails
Tough Hide
Born of the Irydnu
10->40int
10->40con

Gives you
147 con
150 int
As well as extra resists, +200hp, +5% dodge skill

LA-100% (~60)
UA-110% (~70)
UAM-60% (~20)
SM-97% (~58)
Dodge-~135% (90)

SM-GM
Blind-GM
Stun-GM
Snare-GM
CS-GM
BS-GM
Sneak-GM
Proc-GM (20)
Silence-35
Hide-18 (8)
ShadowBolt-5 (unnatural flight/long distance spell disrupt)

Full resist Assy LA suit
12con/12int Assy hood
Jewels to pref, I was leaning towards 12con/12int, 12/6all Amy
1 MoVamp KoP (no other way to gain health)
1 MoT3 proc for damage

Fights in OStance, or precise as necessary.
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Re: UA Vamp Assassin-Critique

Post by unfringed » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:15 pm

Travelling Performer is a bad rune, and the lack of Sold to the Pits sucks 10 points out of your build. I'd swap TP for SotP.

The build I used last time I played an human RA was the below.

Warlord's Page
Sold to the Pits
Born of the Irydnu
Brilliant Mind
Tough as Nails
40 con/int, 3 points from filling con rune, 160 int 147 con.

Loses Tough Hide, but the 10 extra int grants 2 extra points in all of my skills. Along with Sold to the Pits, that means a total of 18 extra points plus better DPS. Gear's a matter of preference, but I go 50% LA, two MoV KoPs, resist of shadowmastery jewelry, and a runed of genius hood. Protection against templar fire and (normally, though not in CB) bow poison damage is more important than a bit more HP, and with all the bowscouts out there every bit of ATR you can get is essential IMO since you're dead if you can't land that stun and snare.

Most of your trains are uncontroversial, but...
Khal wrote:Silence-35
Why? Those points would be better pretty much anywhere else, from hide to shadowmastery. Also, I know a lot of people train shadow bolt to 5, but I've never seen the point since I never end up wanting to waste the mana for a petty DPS boost and the snare is just as good at grounding flyers.

The 10 extra int, SotP, and dropping shadow bolt, the LA, and lowering silence to 1 leaves you with 107 extra trains. On live, I used them to get the poison resist spell, hide, and to beef up my UA and shadowmastery ATR but there's a lot of other things one could train, including discipline powers like BH reveal, saboteur, traveler, and a cold or unholy resist spell from UH to help against mage assassins or proccers.

Bird assassins are superior though. And neph. And some would argue Aelf, though I find the bird root is a better tool for fighting scouts than snare immunity.

Khal
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Re: UA Vamp Assassin-Critique

Post by Khal » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:20 pm

Holy bejesus, I forgot STtP! Fix that! N why 35 silence? Cause it's been years, idk :P.

As to why human? I ain't building the thing, I was just killing 5 mins at work.
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Re: UA Vamp Assassin-Critique

Post by Wrought » Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:41 pm

First of all... and I kind of skimmed read this, you scrapped going shade due to being point tight and opted for vamp. Which as you now know, will be even more point tight. I don't need to throw in the fact you're trying to build a high defense rogue assassin, and shades are immune to blind.

To answer your most recent question. Going human will unlock and array of valuable training points. Something a Vampire will be lacking.
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Re: UA Vamp Assassin-Critique

Post by Marksman » Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:45 pm

unfringed wrote:He's not low on points, he's just misusing them. and lol@stunless assassins, that's almost as bad as Viscuss's dex based cloth bladeweaver.

The only way this could be salvaged is by going Irekei for the SD atr cut, and even then it's going to be terribad.
Lol

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Re: UA Vamp Assassin-Critique

Post by Steffa97 » Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:51 pm

Kaycer wrote:Need some looks at my latest build, previously was Shade however I found it to be extremely stat pt limited. The weapons are proc based hence the high int.
Peerless of ob
Peerless of vamp

Race: Vamp
Starting Runes:
Lightning Reflexes
Taught by Master thief
Lucky
Stat Runes:
40 dex
20 int

Stats Lev 75
dex 180
con 35
int 140


Disc:
Belgosh
BH

PT Spread
LA-167(Gold)
SM-123
UA- 124
UAM-135
Fort- 20(GM)
Sneak- GM
BS- GM
Stun- GM
Steal Breath- 15
SM- GM
Slayers -1 train

Det hidden- GM


Any suggestions for improvement?
These are the stats with just conc def stance(which is where I spend most my time), still need to finalize 1-2 pcs of jewels still have some 2 6/10 rings. No vorg just standard +8 assassin junk. Procs range from 300-800 depending on which proc goes off and the target. (The poison is on the lower end 300-500)

HP- 1892
STA- 403
Def- 2086
atr- 1404
28/20/20

I've been considering lowering UA masteries in favor or blind but I just don't seem to use it enough. normally if I can get a hold of a prime target they cant survive my stun+BP, so I have no need for the blind. I've always thought it to be one of the most useful tools for an assassin.

Some advice appreciated
You want lower HP on a vamp to make use of your fort but this thing has some serious issues with literally bleeding to death, let alone a templar/huntress/any DoT.

At creation, drop TBMT before anything else. You don't need an int rune and you should do fine with even a 25 dex. Put the rest in con and your fort is still somewhat effective and you now are resting at about 2.3k HP. Drop UA to 110 and UAM to 70-90 to taste. If you're investing that much in SM you might as well GM the DoT. LA to the border where 2:1 trains become 3:1. Dump the rest in dodge.

That's just what I found right off the bat. I'll return tomorrow and take a more detailed look at it.
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