The Barbaric Problem

ZenZhang
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Re: The Barbaric Problem

Post by ZenZhang » Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:28 am

Logan wrote:Barbs aren't supposed to have a GM def cut. That's the whole basic rationale behind their structure... High DMG, high hp, lower atr. You can hit high def targets but you have to make some sacrifices.

You're arguing that Barbs can't compete w/ Warriors. It's not because of their atr it's that their DMG doesn't make up for their lack of HA...

Max con hammer barbs are supposed to struggle against high def! The trade off is you get a bunch of stuns, pbs and less resistant enemies.
Totally agree.
Barbs are fine but they're just barbs.
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Re: The Barbaric Problem

Post by ymazaki » Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:08 am

Barbarian is my favorite class. :geek:

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Re: The Barbaric Problem

Post by Telemakus » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:44 am

This thread got necro'd a bit so ima go ahead and throw this out there: People are comparing DK stun's 3 seconds to barb's 5 seconds. I don't, and never would, put 40 trains into the barb aoe stun.

at 20 trains it is a 3 second stun and a 9 second immunity with about a 7 second recast timer. You can spam it just as well as the DK, but you have to wait those 2 secs after it refreshes to hit it again. If you go with a 5 second stun and 15 second immunity, people can cast a lot of annoying spells in those 10 seconds of freedom. With only 6 seconds of freedom, you lock them down better and preserve 20 trains to use elsewhere.
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Re: The Barbaric Problem

Post by jlbro33 » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:11 am

You're not building your barbarian correctly; you should easily reach 2k+ ATR as a barbarian.

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Re: The Barbaric Problem

Post by Amaz » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:20 am

jlbro33 wrote:You're not building your barbarian correctly; you should easily reach 2k+ ATR as a barbarian.
Before or after the GM atr debuff ?
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Re: The Barbaric Problem

Post by tooshifty » Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:20 am

Shadowz wrote:
I had 30 points in vengeance and killed most rogues + blood horn bleed + axe def debuff is enough
Your def debuff wont touch any toon with real defense.
not true at all. i hit Skah! with def and i had a werebear glass greatsword barb. being rogue helped.
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Re: The Barbaric Problem

Post by Ajushi » Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:54 am

I suspect the gm def cut from wb had more to do with it.

Barbs don't make the greatest soloers but they certainly aren't weak. The rogue chickens still do ok even after the horrendous throwing nerfs and you will see wearbears and ua proccers and the like. Barbs also make great smallscale toons, and were one of the most played in the last preview (behind only scouts and druids). Where they fall down is playing second fiddle to warriors in gvg because in 20v20+ HA > Rage
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Re: The Barbaric Problem

Post by Fleetness » Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:57 am

Ajushi wrote:I suspect the gm def cut from wb had more to do with it.

Barbs don't make the greatest soloers but they certainly aren't weak. The rogue chickens still do ok even after the horrendous throwing nerfs and you will see wearbears and ua proccers and the like. Barbs also make great smallscale toons, and were one of the most played in the last preview (behind only scouts and druids). Where they fall down is playing second fiddle to warriors in gvg because in 20v20+ HA > Rage
I agree, Warriors shine in large scale when you have dedicated heals and support. Barbs are better when it is less than 10v10.

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Re: The Barbaric Problem

Post by jlbro33 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:05 pm

Amaz wrote:
jlbro33 wrote:You're not building your barbarian correctly; you should easily reach 2k+ ATR as a barbarian.
Before or after the GM atr debuff ?
That's before the ATR debuff. If you apply Valkyr that's a +50% ATR buff on CD to nullify any ATR cut or Blind.

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Re: The Barbaric Problem

Post by Amaz » Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:31 pm

jlbro33 wrote:
Amaz wrote:
jlbro33 wrote:You're not building your barbarian correctly; you should easily reach 2k+ ATR as a barbarian.
Before or after the GM atr debuff ?
That's before the ATR debuff. If you apply Valkyr that's a +50% ATR buff on CD to nullify any ATR cut or Blind.
True enough, but if you apply valkyr you are human or aelf, and throwing away a lot of melee stats vs a HG or Mino. Don't get me wrong, valk is one of my favorite runes, but making a valk STR based toon that is anywhere near as powerful as a base mino or HG needs a lot of expensive stat runes.
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Re: The Barbaric Problem

Post by jlbro33 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:00 am

Amaz wrote:
jlbro33 wrote:
Amaz wrote:
Before or after the GM atr debuff ?
That's before the ATR debuff. If you apply Valkyr that's a +50% ATR buff on CD to nullify any ATR cut or Blind.
True enough, but if you apply valkyr you are human or aelf, and throwing away a lot of melee stats vs a HG or Mino. Don't get me wrong, valk is one of my favorite runes, but making a valk STR based toon that is anywhere near as powerful as a base mino or HG needs a lot of expensive stat runes.
Not to mention, if you apply Valkyr you get a +25 to max STR which isn't half bad. And to get the full extent of a barbarian's damage you need at least 90+ into intelligence believe it or not, haha!

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Re: The Barbaric Problem

Post by BigDaddy » Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:16 am

jlbro33 wrote: And to get the full extent of a barbarian's damage you need at least 90+ into intelligence believe it or not, haha!
Could you explain this please?
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Re: The Barbaric Problem

Post by jlbro33 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:25 am

BigDaddy wrote:
jlbro33 wrote: And to get the full extent of a barbarian's damage you need at least 90+ into intelligence believe it or not, haha!
Could you explain this please?
Think about it, with 60 skill points you get 90 trains into a stat like Axes or Great Axe mastery; with more intellect, you raise those skills higher, thus increasing your damage output as a barbarian.

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Re: The Barbaric Problem

Post by unfringed » Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:33 am

Skills have an extremely negligible impact on damage. The highest damage barbarians tend to be very low int, actually, as sub-60 allows for high strength without sacrificing con.

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Re: The Barbaric Problem

Post by jlbro33 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:40 am

unfringed wrote:Skills have an extremely negligible impact on damage. The highest damage barbarians tend to be very low int, actually, as sub-60 allows for high strength without sacrificing con.
That explains why I've built the hardest hitting barbarian who hit for over 2k last beta phase; unfortunately, he was hitting harder w/o glass axe because of the +41% slashing res debuff is negligible w/ glass axe (which is/was bleeding damage). This patch, I'm going to shoot for a 3k+ w/ a hone buff, lol!

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Re: The Barbaric Problem

Post by Khal » Fri Jan 10, 2014 6:02 pm

Barbs themselves are fine, I've played many over the years with no problem.
That being said, warriors>barbs in GvG

So how do you balance them out with warriors, while not unbalance them in the larger scheme of things?

To keep with the theme of high damage, low atr, why note make promoting to barb a little like applying valk?
At promotion -5int, -5max int, -5con, -10max con, +20str, +35max str

Make rage last 3.5m (compromise!)

Add a stackable 30% damage buff, with a -15%atr, to vengeance?
Add a 10 minute cool down, have it last 30-45seconds?

The last ones a shot in the dark


Idk, it's been a while. Ideas
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Re: The Barbaric Problem

Post by Khal » Fri Jan 10, 2014 6:15 pm

Reading that post, the last one might be a bit much, tone it down to 20% damage buff?
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Re: The Barbaric Problem

Post by Bonham » Thu May 01, 2014 1:58 pm

Skullsplitter wrote:Barbs seem so second class compared to warriors. What are the advantages of going barb over warrior?? Rage yes that's clear and also the only ability that makes barbs remotely better than warrior. Warriors get better stances, better armor, better weapon powers, dk, dorf's


Another issue is barbs are Skah! when it comes to going against most if not all rogue based characters. Almost all rogues can hit 2k defense these days with +9def and or vorg gear, What are barbs supposed to do?

On an hg barb with even 175 str and 90 trains into focus your only looking at 1400 or so atr adding precise to the equation and barely any barb will break over 1750.

The only two solutions for damaging a rogue toon would be Vengeance which is not a solution, Or go werebear and get a gm def debuff.

Tldr
Warriors are better than Barbs in every single way except for a 2 minute power
Barbs can't hit any rogues

Should Sb just get rid of barbs? If not what's their role?
This post is so 2000 and late.
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Re: The Barbaric Problem

Post by sbvera13 » Sat May 03, 2014 3:54 pm

Bonham wrote: This post is so 2000 and late.
You posted on a forum that hasn't had any posts since March 27th for that?

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Re: The Barbaric Problem

Post by Bole » Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:54 pm

Take away the hg nurf

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