Cent Sader build

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TheMaXX37
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Cent Sader build

Post by TheMaXX37 » Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:41 pm

One of my favorite toons to play was a centaur nuke-sader. Been so long since I made one, how does this look for starters?

STR : 40/110
DEX: 20/85
CON: 50/120 (took 5 from all to start)
INT: 61/108
SPI: 45/100

Wizard's Apprentice, Brilliant Mind, and Increased Intelligence for creation runes. Leaves 13 points unassigned.

I think I remember using Heavy armor and coming close to maxing block (90 trains and then anything left after powers). 38% hammer and shield.

Huntsman, Knight (for spirit buff), and Traveler.

GM'd Censure, blessed mending, the group heal also got some trains I think. I remember using a melee based stun, shield bash I think it was.
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zenjah
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Re: Cent Sader build

Post by zenjah » Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:54 pm

One comment I'll make is that Increased Intelligence is useless. It gets over-written by in-game stat runes.

When I was a noob on Entropy there was a guy who ran around with one of these and he was quite effective. The character was named Reign in Blood, tagged War Pigs.

I'm guessing it lost some of its effectiveness at solo PvP when they removed stylecasting.
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Re: Cent Sader build

Post by Ajushi » Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:07 pm

Think you should find the points for sacrifice on a sader, or you may as well just make a prelate.
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TheMaXX37
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Re: Cent Sader build

Post by TheMaXX37 » Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:12 pm

Ajushi wrote:Think you should find the points for sacrifice on a sader, or you may as well just make a prelate.
Hmm, I'll look into that, thanks! If I remember a reason for crusader over prelate was discipline options and heavy armor. I will check on that as well.

After checking the wiki, crusaders do have heavy armor where as prelates can only get up to medium armor. The disciplines were confirmed also, no track available for prelates. I like a lot of functionality on my toons, so that makes me lean towards crusader.

The point you made about sacrifice is very good! The heal transfer worked through Shadowmantle and I think it ignored any healing received debuffs. I will be putting at least one point in that to save friendlies. Much thanks!
Last edited by TheMaXX37 on Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cent Sader build

Post by zenjah » Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:16 pm

TheMaXX37 wrote:discipline options
Yep. If you intend to solo PvP with it then the ability to get a Tracking rune is probably the biggest reason to pick Crusader over Prelate.
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Re: Cent Sader build

Post by TheMaXX37 » Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:20 pm

zenjah wrote:
TheMaXX37 wrote:discipline options
Yep. If you intend to solo PvP with it then the ability to get a Tracking rune is probably the biggest reason to pick Crusader over Prelate.
Agreed! As you and I both know, even if one doesn't intend solo PvP, solo PvP can push itself on a person. I'm going to playing an unhealthy amount on this preview, so I anticipate a lot of PvP.
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Re: Cent Sader build

Post by Vivitron » Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:42 pm

One issue with solo is it's going to be hard to hit scouts. I remember one fight on against a healer sader on my vamp belgo scout years ago. He out healed my damage until I was nearly out of stam, so I summoned in help. I don't think he landed a single nuke on me the entire time.

You might be able to mitigate some of that with weapon powers, I'm not sure. I think either way you'll have more fun if you find someone to team up with most of the time.

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Re: Cent Sader build

Post by Vivitron » Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:44 pm

Oh, and the stats. I don't have a char builder handy but I would max out int, put the rest in con, and disfavor spirit. Lately the only resist you see a lot of small scale is poison, so you can spare an int prefix or two to keep up mana regen.

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Re: Cent Sader build

Post by TheMaXX37 » Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:51 pm

Vivitron wrote:One issue with solo is it's going to be hard to hit scouts. I remember one fight on against a healer sader on my vamp belgo scout years ago. He out healed my damage until I was nearly out of stam, so I summoned in help. I don't think he landed a single nuke on me the entire time.

You might be able to mitigate some of that with weapon powers, I'm not sure. I think either way you'll have more fun if you find someone to team up with most of the time.

Oh, and the stats. I don't have a char builder handy but I would max out int, put the rest in con, and disfavor spirit. Lately the only resist you see a lot of small scale is poison, so you can spare an int prefix or two to keep up mana regen.
So true. Luckily I'm not concerned with being able to kill everything on the battlefield as I'm expecting to run with a group or at least one other person most of the time. When I'm solo I'll just have to think on my hooves! xD Thanks for the idea of mana regen gear, I'll probably use some until I get Knight spirit buff trained.
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Re: Cent Sader build

Post by Fleetness » Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:11 am

zenjah wrote:One comment I'll make is that Increased Intelligence is useless. It gets over-written by in-game stat runes.
Increased Intelligence does not get over-written by in-game runes. It is very rare to use it as it is not cost effective, but on a build that has 3-4 left over stat points at 75 it can be worth taking.

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Re: Cent Sader build

Post by zenjah » Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:23 am

Fleetness wrote:Increased Intelligence does not get over-written by in-game runes. It is very rare to use it as it is not cost effective, but on a build that has 3-4 left over stat points at 75 it can be worth taking.
You sure about that?
Adron wrote:increased intelligence (+1/+3) is overwritten by in-game int runes. tested for truthiness.
Deathmarch wrote:Noob, increased dexterity is a stacking rune that gets overwritten by enhanced dexterity.
Phylor wrote:
zenjah wrote:
sabo wrote:The starting rune Increased Dexterity, is suppose to be stack able with other dex runes. When I apply a legendary Dex, it just over wrote the +3 max dex start rune.
Those +3 starting traits were overwritten by stat runes on live. It is not a bug, unfortunately. I would prefer that they stacked.
This is correct. Unfortunately the way they were on live, they really were not very useful.
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Re: Cent Sader build

Post by Fleetness » Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:55 pm

Well, I have only used them very rarely. Here is a template where it actually helps. Though this template is kind of mediocre it actually works for a botted banesader. It never, ever runs out of mana and its heals and nukes are very consistent, though somewhat average.

-------The Basics---------

Race: Dwarf
Class: Healer
Profession: Crusader

------Applied Runes-------

Increased Intelligence
Brilliant Mind
Spirit of the Gods
Forge Master
Rune Caster
Sanctifier
Traveller

----------Stats-----------

Strength: 40/110
Dexterity: 20/80
Constitution: 140/140
Intelligence: 83/83
Spirit: 140/140

----------Skills----------

Toughness 49% (10 trains)
Benediction 69% (30 trains)
Restoration 130% (91 trains)
Block 100% (70 trains)
Liturgy 136% (104 trains)
Wear Armor, Heavy 100% (70 trains)

----------Powers----------

Blessed Mending 40 (Grand Master)
Prayer of Mending 40 (Grand Master)
Blessing of the Healing Hands 25 (Skilled)
Recall to Runegate 5 (Beginner)
Benediction of Saint Lorne 39 (Master)
Censure 40 (Grand Master)
Sacrifice 40 (Grand Master)
The All-Father's Shield 1 (Untrained)
Harden Armor 20 (Journeyman)
Beorc Rune 20 (Journeyman)
Sanctify the Fallen 1 (Untrained)
Sacred Reinforcement 1 (Untrained)
Open Fire Gate 5 (Beginner)
Open Water Gate 5 (Beginner)
Open Earth Gate 5 (Beginner)
Open Air Gate 5 (Beginner)
Open Spirit Gate 5 (Beginner)

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Re: Cent Sader build

Post by zenjah » Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:01 pm

That template doesn't even apply an in-game Int rune. It does nothing to support your argument that Increased Intelligence is not over-written by in-game stat runes.
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Re: Cent Sader build

Post by Fleetness » Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:09 pm

I never claimed that template proved anything about the +3 int runes not being overwritten. I just posted it as an actual mostly viable template that used the +3 int to a valid purpose. There are not many templates that do. But I have used the +3 int runes to get rid of a few stat points at level 75. Had a template or two that had 123 Strength or 153 con using the +3 stat runes on fighter template too.

I will admit that I am probably wrong on them not being overwritten by in-game runes, but I have used them to good effect in templates.

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Re: Cent Sader build

Post by TheMaXX37 » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:03 pm

That looks really solid Fleetness, thanks :) a question though, why dwarf? T.T they have such short legs! lol, I could never get myself to play one, they just look funny to me. Make it a centaur and I'm sold xD
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Re: Cent Sader build

Post by Fleetness » Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:23 pm

Well, a spirit based Dwarf Crusader actually kind of works decently. It is a very cheap template to make and you don't have to stack int runes. I used that template for several Banes on a second account to run Damage Chant for the Mino Bash bots.

It was also very amenable to AGC macroing. You could set it to target a priest and cast Sac, Prayer, bm, bm, Refresh Damage chant repeat. In walk mode with a Conc, it could do that till the conc wore off and never run low on Mana.

I would tab switch to it after my main toon died, till my main was out of Death Shroud. Now I would never play it as a everyday main toon. The int version has much better Attack rating and Burst damage. But for a cheap Bane Sader bot, it worked very well.

I did try a spirit based Cent Crusader. Not as good as the INT version at all. Things are closer for Dwarfs as they don't get huge INT numbers anyway.

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Re: Cent Sader build

Post by TheMaXX37 » Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:08 pm

Ahh, I gotcha Fleetness. That sounds like it works well, but for me personally I never dual-box or bot anything. I just want to steer and fire for one character at a time. Just how I always have been. :) thanks for the info!
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Re: Cent Sader build

Post by Cryfowl » Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:56 pm

zenjah wrote:That template doesn't even apply an in-game Int rune. It does nothing to support your argument that Increased Intelligence is not over-written by in-game stat runes.
You're right here Zenjah. All of the "increased" stat starting runes are overwritten in game if you take any further stat runes. i tested this myself. The only time it would make any sense to take one would be if you don't plan on taking any in game runes. Even then that's pretty inefficient.
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