Bow

finx9876
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Re: Bow

Post by finx9876 » Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:54 am

Centaur ,of course fighter ,with high speed and nice HP and stamina .

damage ?dont worry about it .

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Re: Bow

Post by MaxPower » Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:37 pm

Heyzeuss wrote:
Aleister wrote:I know it's BS that Ranger gets non-GM bow powers and has to waste a disc spot on Archer, but bow is still Skah! awesome on this class, especially on a fighter.

My question:
What's the best race and/or template for a bow ranger? Do you GM the stam regen? Prefer fighter or rogue and why?
There is no best template/race for a ranger and both fighter and rogue rangers have advantages for different situations.

Here are two strong bow templates:
Grims Shade Rogue Ranger
Zoupz Fighter Ranger

These aren't exactly how you should build them and the fighter one to me is a little dated, but it gives you a good general direction. Feel free to post further questions.
I can't see the templates :(

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Re: Bow

Post by Coolwatersx » Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:16 pm

TreeBurrow wrote:And how is a Fighter better than a Rogue in GvG other than having slightly more HP and less damage?
Less damage?

Interesting.
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Re: Bow

Post by tooshifty » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:43 pm

Zoopz wrote:
Teddie wrote:Human Fighter Ranger

put 100 points into int
take a 40 dex in game and put the rest into con

go bow and medium armor
take the disc. were rat (gm expose to pierce and +30% group dmg buff 60 sec)
gold bow
gold archery
gold medium aromor

this is a high defense group friendly ranger
you will be hitting over 1000 per hit with the gm expose and over 700 with normal damage. my max hit was 1950 on a medium armor priest.

also take artillerist so you can be a very useful bane toon and buff trebs!!!!!

a group of these would rock

the biggest difference for me when going rouge vs fighter is the amount of hp and stam you get. Rouge gets more stam and fighter gets more hp. To be honest I never run into problems with stam so fighter is it!!!!
This is terrible on so many levels.
i have to agree....its not too awsome.
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Re: Bow

Post by tooshifty » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:58 pm

there are endless ways to build bow rangers. it depends purely on what u want to do. One thing i would not recomend is trying to go both Def/hp regen, its not as great as it sounds. go either all def, like 2200 or 2300ish, or all regen with the legendary 410% regen. If you are rolling in a group i would take a fighter, but if you are solo i would go rogue. If you are a def bow toon then go LA even if your a fighter. if your pure regen ma is key. If you go def i would reccomend going Human/Elf/Aelfborn/Shade for the blademaster or bladeweaver disciplines. You can maintain def stance and hit anything u want with feint active. I've literally made every variation and i dont reaaaally have a favorite. well...maybe shade or human def fighters. they are super fun. wererats are fun too especially when u run up on someone for the melee pierce expose, buuuuut the problem with that is you dont get the ranger heal...and that thing is a life saving monster of a heal. i always gm it.
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Re: Bow

Post by Fugger » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:30 pm

I preferred rogues with mass regen and 1900-2k def. You can certainly have both. I liked the 3700 hp and regen to fall back on when blinded/def cut. You can not do both, however, without high end gear. I went vorg LA, 24 con hood, 24 con jewels. Nowadays Im playing a savant bird rogue with high defense in MA and int for the savant heal and ranger heal. If i had more resources/vorg, I'd probably reroll the aelfborn.

I also really like wererats. A wererat rogue should go full defense, and can hit hard --moreso thanks to the 100% dmg styles rather than the pierce debuff. A wererat fighter ranger hits like a truck.

But in general, there's a couple ways to make a bow ranger: standard def build rogue, health regen high dodge rogue, def/regen rogue, high con/regen fighter, def stance dancing fighter (garbage imo),

Then disciplines can change it substantially:
Proc based with UH (implying higher int for GoT, procs, Heal)
Wererat based
Savant based/ support engineered birds

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Re: Bow

Post by Teddie » Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:57 am

.........
Last edited by Teddie on Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bow

Post by Teddie » Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:26 pm

LOL @ zoopz and tooshifty

Your not very creative with your builds only going 60 int and under on a ranger, you should both try building your rangers differently than you would be a mino/dwarf warrior(you literally replaced str from a warrior with the dex a ranger requires) or bird scout. Different classes should be built much differently and on a ranger there are a lot of options for builds and stats as there are different playing styles and SO MANY powers to choose from. This ranger build is good for banes/mines and solo pvp. I will admit that I played it much more at banes and mines than I did solo. However I never lost a dual against another ranger and you can see from my damage (184-819 unstlyed) and defense (2493) why that's the case. I have had duels with other bow rangers, blademasters, sword rangers, bladeweaver rangers, even other fighter dual ax rangers.

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Bring your bow ranger 1 vs 1 Zoopz or tooshifty any time and we will see who has the better bow ranger build. I know neither of you have ever tried a build with that much int thats mele not proc based. I got the idea from Rokin and changed the build as time went on. I know that my build hits way harder and has more defense than your builds do. Also this was a rouge ranger build I made using the same stat build during the last phase of cb, it has more stam than my fighter build but it has about 400-500 less hp and I also went with LA for vorg instead of MA like I normally do. The defense is better but the atr is lower and the dmg is not quite as high as it gets on a fighter.
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Re: Bow

Post by Fugger » Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:31 pm

Teddie wrote:LOL @ zoopz and tooshifty

Your not very creative with your builds only going 60 int and under on a ranger, you should both try building your rangers differently than you would be a mino/dwarf warrior(you literally replaced str from a warrior with the dex a ranger requires) or bird scout. Different classes should be built much differently and on a ranger there are a lot of options for builds and stats as there are different playing styles and SO MANY powers to choose from. This ranger build is good for banes/mines and solo pvp. I will admit that I played it much more at banes and mines than I did solo. However I never lost a dual against another ranger and you can see from my damage (184-819 unstlyed) and defense (2493) why that's the case. I have had duels with other bow rangers, blademasters, sword rangers, bladeweaver rangers, even other fighter dual ax rangers.

[ Image ]




Bring your bow ranger 1 vs 1 Zoopz or tooshifty any time and we will see who has the better bow ranger build. I know neither of you have ever tried a build with that much int thats mele not proc based. I got the idea from Rokin and changed the build as time went on. I know that my build hits way harder and has more defense than your builds do. Also this was a rouge ranger build I made using the same stat build during the last phase of cb, it has more stam than my fighter build but it has about 400-500 less hp and I also went with LA for vorg instead of MA like I normally do. The defense is better but the atr is lower and the dmg is not quite as high as it gets on a fighter.
While that damage range is "unstyled" -- it is with teeth of the swarm up, so it's not a accurate depiction of your normal range. That being said, looks like an excellent and impressive build.
I'd probably sacrifice some of that defense fore more health/regen, but that's personal preference and there's certainly no faults hre - but Id love for you to share your gear/trains/stat breakdown for the forum's sake if you feel up to it.

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Re: Bow

Post by Teddie » Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:04 pm

Teddies fighter ranger build

starting runes:
-lucky
-lightning reflexes
-taught by master thief
-human only dex rune

Stats:
-Base dex: 130 (then take a 40 dex to get to 170)
-Base int: 100 raise in to 100
-Base con should be around 95

Runes:
wererat
gladiator
archer
artillerist (this is a great build for banes)

Powers:
bow-gold
archery-gold
medium armor-gold
beastcraft - 115%
Turn steel - 40
Braialla's Zeal - 40
mend wounds - 1
wolf's vigor - 40
Wolfskin - 40
Rat shape - 20
skree'ekt shape - 20
teeth of the swarm - 20

Gear:
all +9 def armor
for my rings and ammy i use 10 dex/10 int 30% stam regen or 20 dex 30% stam regen either works the double dex gives you a little more defense and the int/dex rings and ammy give you more damage and atr.

with good gear you should be around 2400 def in form you never run out of stam and you have wolfskin for stam and % heal.
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Re: Bow

Post by Teddie » Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:13 pm

Fugger wrote:While that damage range is "unstyled" -- it is with teeth of the swarm up, so it's not a accurate depiction of your normal range. That being said, looks like an excellent and impressive build. I'd probably sacrifice some of that defense fore more health/regen, but that's personal preference and there's certainly no faults hre - but Id love for you to share your gear/trains/stat breakdown for the forum's sake if you feel up to it.
There is teeth of the swarm up but without the extra 30% it would still be close to 600 "unstyled" I would love to see more wererat rangers running around owning the server :D
I hope my build helps some people who havent tried this type of build, maybe someone can even improve it a bit. Either way I still think that rangers are a under utilized class that nobody really plays at banes or mines. Could you imagine seeing a group or 2 of these as a spec group at a mine or bane? People make xbow warrior and xbow thief specs, I think that these might be better imo.

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Re: Bow

Post by Equastro » Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:15 am

I'm actually building a rogue wererat ranger that should hit extremely hard. I intend to use the vorgrim bow and have a fury run with me for the poison expose. Just imagine the 100% damage style with the wererat damage buff running and a -50% poison resist target X-D

Because the vorgrim bow is so extremely slow, I just want it to sit in O-stance permanently.
Therefore it is all out dex/con with 60 int. Tough hide + 100% MA for resists, double con hat, regen jewelry, golded dodge.

It should not be all that great survivability wise, but damage wise it should absolutely rape. But still nothing more than a fun experimental build though.

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Re: Bow

Post by Teddie » Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:43 pm

Equastro wrote:I'm actually building a rogue wererat ranger that should hit extremely hard. I intend to use the vorgrim bow and have a fury run with me for the poison expose. Just imagine the 100% damage style with the wererat damage buff running and a -50% poison resist target X-D

Because the vorgrim bow is so extremely slow, I just want it to sit in O-stance permanently.
Therefore it is all out dex/con with 60 int. Tough hide + 100% MA for resists, double con hat, regen jewelry, golded dodge.

It should not be all that great survivability wise, but damage wise it should absolutely rape. But still nothing more than a fun experimental build though.

Let me know how that works out. I currently use a vorg bow on my scout and it's not that slow i still win most of the 1 vs 1 fights against other scouts. That seems like a good build but rouges only get 12 hp and 3 stam per point into con so I'm not sure how much return you'll get. You may consider raising your int as well and that will give you more damage and more atr. Also if your going to be in off stance you should go fighter imo because the rouge off stance really doesn't help damage wise like the fighter Rangers does.
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Re: Bow

Post by Equastro » Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:54 pm

Teddie wrote:
Equastro wrote:I'm actually building a rogue wererat ranger that should hit extremely hard. I intend to use the vorgrim bow and have a fury run with me for the poison expose. Just imagine the 100% damage style with the wererat damage buff running and a -50% poison resist target X-D

Because the vorgrim bow is so extremely slow, I just want it to sit in O-stance permanently.
Therefore it is all out dex/con with 60 int. Tough hide + 100% MA for resists, double con hat, regen jewelry, golded dodge.

It should not be all that great survivability wise, but damage wise it should absolutely rape. But still nothing more than a fun experimental build though.

Let me know how that works out. I currently use a vorg bow on my scout and it's not that slow i still win most of the 1 vs 1 fights against other scouts. That seems like a good build but rouges only get 12 hp and 3 stam per point into con so I'm not sure how much return you'll get. You may consider raising your int as well and that will give you more damage and more atr. Also if your going to be in off stance you should go fighter imo because the rouge off stance really doesn't help damage wise like the fighter Rangers does.
You cannot use the vorg bow on fighters. If that was the case, I would never have rolled a rogue in the first place :-)
And actually I am very fond of int/con bow proccer toons (as a matter of fact my scout still stands undefeated in clean 1v1 bow scout engagements), especially on a ranger/huntress since they get additional things that really benefit from the high int (heal / nukes respectively). Because a wererat toon cannot benefit from that, it is not going to be that useful to go with higher int. The only thing you win there is perhaps 1-2 trains from a higher base MA, .25%-.5% extra dodge chance and perhaps 20-30 atr? I'd rather have the extra con then.
Furthermore don't forget it should be coupled with a fury. Fury have plenty tools to additionally lower defense too. And then if that's still not enough, there's always P-stance still.

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Re: Bow

Post by Loogie » Sun May 25, 2014 9:53 pm

Fugger wrote:I preferred rogues with mass regen and 1900-2k def. You can certainly have both. I liked the 3700 hp and regen to fall back on when blinded/def cut. You can not do both, however, without high end gear. I went vorg LA, 24 con hood, 24 con jewels. Nowadays Im playing a savant bird rogue with high defense in MA and int for the savant heal and ranger heal. If i had more resources/vorg, I'd probably reroll the aelfborn.

I also really like wererats. A wererat rogue should go full defense, and can hit hard --moreso thanks to the 100% dmg styles rather than the pierce debuff. A wererat fighter ranger hits like a truck.

But in general, there's a couple ways to make a bow ranger: standard def build rogue, health regen high dodge rogue, def/regen rogue, high con/regen fighter, def stance dancing fighter (garbage imo),

Then disciplines can change it substantially:
Proc based with UH (implying higher int for GoT, procs, Heal)
Wererat based
Savant based/ support engineered birds
Fugger you mentioned you're playing a bird rogue wearing medium armor ---- how is the dex penalty affecting your damage? And how high defense can you achieve on MA compared to LA?
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Re: Bow

Post by flyredguy » Mon May 26, 2014 8:34 am

Equastro wrote:
Teddie wrote:
Equastro wrote:I'm actually building a rogue wererat ranger that should hit extremely hard. I intend to use the vorgrim bow and have a fury run with me for the poison expose. Just imagine the 100% damage style with the wererat damage buff running and a -50% poison resist target X-D

Because the vorgrim bow is so extremely slow, I just want it to sit in O-stance permanently.
Therefore it is all out dex/con with 60 int. Tough hide + 100% MA for resists, double con hat, regen jewelry, golded dodge.

It should not be all that great survivability wise, but damage wise it should absolutely rape. But still nothing more than a fun experimental build though.

Let me know how that works out. I currently use a vorg bow on my scout and it's not that slow i still win most of the 1 vs 1 fights against other scouts. That seems like a good build but rouges only get 12 hp and 3 stam per point into con so I'm not sure how much return you'll get. You may consider raising your int as well and that will give you more damage and more atr. Also if your going to be in off stance you should go fighter imo because the rouge off stance really doesn't help damage wise like the fighter Rangers does.
You cannot use the vorg bow on fighters. If that was the case, I would never have rolled a rogue in the first place :-)
And actually I am very fond of int/con bow proccer toons (as a matter of fact my scout still stands undefeated in clean 1v1 bow scout engagements), especially on a ranger/huntress since they get additional things that really benefit from the high int (heal / nukes respectively). Because a wererat toon cannot benefit from that, it is not going to be that useful to go with higher int. The only thing you win there is perhaps 1-2 trains from a higher base MA, .25%-.5% extra dodge chance and perhaps 20-30 atr? I'd rather have the extra con then.
Furthermore don't forget it should be coupled with a fury. Fury have plenty tools to additionally lower defense too. And then if that's still not enough, there's always P-stance still.
youll come out with a much higher atr advantage if you drop points into int. that was the main problem with my bow ranger was that it did not have the atr to hit some high def characters. I tried to offset that by training archer's precision but its useless because the duration is shorter than wearforms and you cant cast precision without breaking it. so yes in my experience its important on bow rangers to go higher int for the atr

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Re: Bow

Post by Loogie » Mon May 26, 2014 12:14 pm

regarding the above post, I think its finally sunk into my thick skull that if I'm making characters with an aim to possibly solo on them, I need to have relatively high int, no matter what. Too many godddamn bow scouts running around to be running around with retarded atr. Might have to sacrifice health, but if a scout is taking damage from you, chances are they'll flee to buy time and you can heal up or whatever.
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Re: Bow

Post by tooshifty » Tue May 27, 2014 7:30 pm

tooshifty wrote:
TreeBurrow wrote:Fighter's get Block and Parry... You can't Parry or Block with a Bow, right

I could swear one can parry with a bow.

-i never bother with the snare...it takes too long to cast, though now that u can attack and cast at the same time is not terrible. its still too slow for chaseing down people.
Damn i must have been trooollllin with that bow parry comment.

Now i would take the ranger snare...the cast time is half of what it was when i made that comment and im finding it super helpful.
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Re: Bow

Post by Steffa97 » Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:29 pm

tooshifty wrote:
tooshifty wrote:
TreeBurrow wrote:Fighter's get Block and Parry... You can't Parry or Block with a Bow, right

I could swear one can parry with a bow.

-i never bother with the snare...it takes too long to cast, though now that u can attack and cast at the same time is not terrible. its still too slow for chaseing down people.
Damn i must have been trooollllin with that bow parry comment.

Now i would take the ranger snare...the cast time is half of what it was when i made that comment and im finding it super helpful.
I currently play an Aelf rogue bow as one of my mains, and it's a 4 second cast time but IMO if you have the points, a 60% snare with some DPS is more than worth it, especially if you're a non-ranged ranger and need to get away or your bow snare is down.
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Re: Bow

Post by Mantis » Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:40 pm

Steffa97 wrote:
tooshifty wrote:
tooshifty wrote:
I could swear one can parry with a bow.

-i never bother with the snare...it takes too long to cast, though now that u can attack and cast at the same time is not terrible. its still too slow for chaseing down people.
Damn i must have been trooollllin with that bow parry comment.

Now i would take the ranger snare...the cast time is half of what it was when i made that comment and im finding it super helpful.
I currently play an Aelf rogue bow as one of my mains, and it's a 4 second cast time but IMO if you have the points, a 60% snare with some DPS is more than worth it, especially if you're a non-ranged ranger and need to get away or your bow snare is down.
The problem with GMing the DoT is that you lose the root break. But on a snare-immune aelf, I could see it working well as both a snare and a root break. Four seconds of casting time is not that big of a deal IMO.

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