Wizards!

Thoron
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Wizards!

Post by Thoron » Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:47 pm

No talk about wizards so... I've only made one and it was neph, pretty fun to play but I never really mastered it and I wasn't very good a surviving. I know you can't really say one race is best but which one es the most survivable? Who can teach me the ways of the Wizard?! :o
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natureswrath
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Re: Wizards!

Post by natureswrath » Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:12 pm

i'd say irekei/blood prophet or shade/shroudbourne...for the heals...and gm translocates..you should be gold....i always liked the sorcery based wizzys..unless im a flying toon..then i train wizardry and the dmg/stam bolt from it...
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Re: Wizards!

Post by Subatomic » Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:43 pm

160/140 Irekei. Their sex on fire.
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Thorskyl
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Re: Wizards!

Post by Thorskyl » Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:46 pm

The real key to survival isn't a HoT or even translocation per se.
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Re: Wizards!

Post by Adron » Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:42 pm

wizards are really nasty toolboxes. survival amounts to having the stacking dex debuffs trained in case of rogues, mana annihilation (1 train will work ok if you train int/spr debuff) in case of other casters, stealth & ports vs meat.
Being irekei/shade closes some weaknesses, such as getting backstabbed by a SD scout. you can port and recover completely before round 2. Irekei, with dual wield adding 15 resist and a racial net of +10 are a little harder for a dps monster like a channie to take down, and the extra 165 atr makes life even worse for rogues. Shade adds in the hide you can train to 21+ to screw over BH trackers.
I wouldn't bother with a neph unless you were going to wall hop in khan, or had a partner who could heal. it doesn't take that many backstabs/bleeds to get rid of a nonhealer with 3k health.
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Re: Wizards!

Post by Malicai » Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:26 pm

i only made one but it was a human wizard and it was a novelty toon, max out everything about the pet and went all int, spir... 100% staff for a cool looking staff, stuff like that.
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Deathmarch
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Re: Wizards!

Post by Deathmarch » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:56 pm

I made a neph once. It was strictly for PLing purposes.

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Re: Wizards!

Post by VorgrimScout » Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:00 am

My main non rogue solo toon was a glassy shade Wizzy. It's a bloody headache playing a wizard amongst 100s of rogues, but it's probably the only thing that actually got my shriveled black heart over 100bpm in this game near the end.

I tried more con/resist heavy builds and they always disappointed me. Even with GM H'gaan and weakening you need some serious atr to consistently hit a 2200+ rogue that has a decent atr debuff. With glass bows abound, you are going to be porting away more than you want to.

I pick Shade over Irekei because I am a racist and a coward (GM hide), though they are probably slightly better for getting the extra atr.
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Re: Wizards!

Post by Adron » Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:40 am

if you absolutely cannot stand losing to rogues, the dispel effect power for wizards is a cure-all. nobody is a badass, glass bow or no, once you hit that about 6 times (dex and atk spd buff gone). 12 seconds is a long time though....you will have to port out of range, heal up, and see if they are brave enough to track you down before hitting their conc again.
It works on yourself for removing precise debuff too, unless it's a sd/dag rogue (the debuffs come too quickly on those fast weapons, not so much bow/xbow).
glass daggers/knuckles are more of a problem..good luck surviving the higher dps of those while you try all of your tricks.

quick calcs: lets go with 2400 def. assume they'll have 40% atr debuff.
wiz: irekei sorcery base. 1800 atr is doable. reduced to 1080 after atr debuff. 5% chance to hit 2400 def at that..
weakness + H'gaan --> -160 dex, -160 str --> rogue has 1750 def. vs 1080 --> still 5% chance to hit.
precise stance = 30% --> 1404 atr. 1404/1750 = .802. that's right at the line where 5% becomes 6%...so you still need help.
If they had started at 2200... 1404/1550 = .905. that's about a 50/50. you're doing alright vs a bird, but good luck vs an elf or a wererat without the effect dispel...
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Re: Wizards!

Post by VorgrimScout » Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:45 am

My mind is hazy, but isn't a bow atr debuff pretty much smack bang in the middle of all your buffs? Counterspell is tempting to take, but better suited to conresist type builds. If you are going to stand there and chain cast a 2 second spell into something that you can't keep snared, rooted or stat debuffed since you are stripping them you better have good resists, aside from def stance and shielding, and likely close to 4k hps, which is not really doable on a wizard unless you want 1600 atr and Skah! for damage, which kinda defeats the purpose.

I've been tempted by the buff dispel Sign of Disruption, but the timer makes me wince. It's probably more workable than counterspell, since you can root, snare and otherwise debuff them while you do it. But you have to ask yourself, how often will this be better than just dropping 2 quick stat debuffs? You can't train everything, and the longer a fight goes on the more chance you have of some joker backstabbing you or otherwise ruining your carefully prepared pvp "rotation". If you can get a decent Wizard boon it's much, much less hassle. I'm going to go ahead and make my glass guy again and see how it fares. My startup runes are quite conservative, the glassy part comes from equip and only taking a 15 con rune for the most part, so refining is an option.

The level of concentration required to be successful on a wizard is so far above and beyond that of a scout or thief it's not even funny, and if you don't play it often enough you will make mistakes and die. That's why you don't see more wizards.

- After a bit of tweaking I managed to fit counterspell into my build and kept h'gaan and weakening. 2 counterspells to hit def and dex iirc, then h'gaan and weakening should be enough to land a precise SoS on just about anything. Then they are 255/260 dex down. If you can't hit them then, it's time to go back to your thief. Counterspell would likely save your [fluffy bunnies] against mage assies too if you are quick off the mark.
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Re: Wizards!

Post by Dadoomsong » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:51 pm

to hit high def toons why not train the following

- Sign of Sorthoth (dex/str -40 gm)

- Sign of H'gaan (dex/str -100 gm)

- Weakening (dex/str -60)

those three spells as far i as know stack with one another.
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Re: Wizards!

Post by VorgrimScout » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:56 pm

I should really start adding abridged TLDR references in bold to the end of my essays.
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Deathmarch
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Re: Wizards!

Post by Deathmarch » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:00 pm

It's their fault for not reading it. Just like anything else, you need context and information to contribute to discussion.

Thoron
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Re: Wizards!

Post by Thoron » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:19 pm

Dadoomsong wrote:to hit high def toons why not train the following

- Sign of Sorthoth (dex/str -40 gm)

- Sign of H'gaan (dex/str -100 gm)

- Weakening (dex/str -60)

those three spells as far i as know stack with one another.
All three of those will stack with the sword power "press teh foe" even though a wizard has sword powers at pr0 it should still debuff for 40 dex/str I believe. -240 dex should be enough :P
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Re: Wizards!

Post by VorgrimScout » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:36 pm

lvl 0 weapon powers means they don't exist. No button appears.
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Adron
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Re: Wizards!

Post by Adron » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:17 pm

using SOS to debuff misses the issue of how you land it to start with, too....

on the bow debuff issue, I dunno. it sure seems like a lot of weapon powers are hanging out on the far left these days...

We'll address the order of the effects bar after everything actually works :)

don't forget irekei wizzies do get some woosy SD powers to debuff def a little, and 1 bleed.

wizard boon is 15-30 sorcery...no wizardry added. thought i'd point that out to anyone looking for endgame templates.
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Re: Wizards!

Post by Morduskull » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:43 am

Wizards rocked my fav was defiantly the irekei .

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Re: Wizards!

Post by natureswrath » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:40 am

counterspell...ftw...-50 magic debuff..sos... few bolts..teleport..then again..
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Thoron
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Re: Wizards!

Post by Thoron » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:49 am

Thoron wrote:
Dadoomsong wrote:to hit high def toons why not train the following

- Sign of Sorthoth (dex/str -40 gm)

- Sign of H'gaan (dex/str -100 gm)

- Weakening (dex/str -60)

those three spells as far i as know stack with one another.
All three of those will stack with the sword power "press teh foe" even though a wizard has sword powers at pr0 it should still debuff for 40 dex/str I believe. -240 dex should be enough :P
oh yea s*** lol so if the weapon power is pr5 will it debuff for -40?
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Re: Wizards!

Post by Dadoomsong » Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:36 am

Thoron wrote:
Thoron wrote:
Dadoomsong wrote:to hit high def toons why not train the following

- Sign of Sorthoth (dex/str -40 gm)

- Sign of H'gaan (dex/str -100 gm)

- Weakening (dex/str -60)

those three spells as far i as know stack with one another.
All three of those will stack with the sword power "press teh foe" even though a wizard has sword powers at pr0 it should still debuff for 40 dex/str I believe. -240 dex should be enough :P
oh yea s*** lol so if the weapon power is pr5 will it debuff for -40?
Negative ... 0 weapon powers means no buttons to push.
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Re: Wizards!

Post by NoseDeep » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:42 am

I usually go Human for the trains

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Re: Wizards!

Post by Azrael » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:49 am

while i was still working on my wizzy, neph seemed to be the way to go. unless you come across a really nasty bird dagger thief you can just fly up and sit in precise if need to be kill whatever is below you. though you'd want to be wizardry for the stam drain.

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Re: Wizards!

Post by Atone » Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:49 pm

VorgrimScout wrote:My main non rogue solo toon was a glassy shade Wizzy. It's a bloody headache playing a wizard amongst 100s of rogues, but it's probably the only thing that actually got my shriveled black heart over 100bpm in this game near the end.

I tried more con/resist heavy builds and they always disappointed me. Even with GM H'gaan and weakening you need some serious atr to consistently hit a 2200+ rogue that has a decent atr debuff. With glass bows abound, you are going to be porting away more than you want to.

I pick Shade over Irekei because I am a racist and a coward (GM hide), though they are probably slightly better for getting the extra atr.
Basically this. Glassy shades all the way.

My neph sorcery build was fun too.
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Hunt
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Re: Wizards!

Post by Hunt » Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:59 am

i never died on my wizard on malog not much of an achievement but still
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Re: Wizards!

Post by Shadowz » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:13 pm

Hunt wrote:i never died on my wizard on malog not much of an achievement but still
All that means is you have no balls. You can keep death lists extremely low on a Wizard, but unless you rarely play it, or play it like a complete Skah!, you will never "never get killed".
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Hunt
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Re: Wizards!

Post by Hunt » Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:09 pm

Shadowz wrote:
Hunt wrote:i never died on my wizard on malog not much of an achievement but still
All that means is you have no balls. You can keep death lists extremely low on a Wizard, but unless you rarely play it, or play it like a complete Skah!, you will never "never get killed".
no balls? not really just means i wasn't bad
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Re: Wizards!

Post by Shadowz » Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:42 pm

Hunt wrote:
Shadowz wrote:
Hunt wrote:i never died on my wizard on malog not much of an achievement but still
All that means is you have no balls. You can keep death lists extremely low on a Wizard, but unless you rarely play it, or play it like a complete [fluffy bunnies], you will never "never get killed".
no balls? not really just means i wasn't bad

I can create a toon and sit it in SDR all day and say it never got killed too.
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Hunt
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Re: Wizards!

Post by Hunt » Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:09 pm

Shadowz wrote:
Hunt wrote:
Shadowz wrote:
All that means is you have no balls. You can keep death lists extremely low on a Wizard, but unless you rarely play it, or play it like a complete [fluffy bunnies], you will never "never get killed".
no balls? not really just means i wasn't bad

I can create a toon and sit it in SDR all day and say it never got killed too.
why sit when you can stand? kill me with fire ice dragon
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Hunt
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Re: Wizards!

Post by Hunt » Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:09 pm

Shadowz wrote:
Hunt wrote:
Shadowz wrote:
All that means is you have no balls. You can keep death lists extremely low on a Wizard, but unless you rarely play it, or play it like a complete [fluffy bunnies], you will never "never get killed".
no balls? not really just means i wasn't bad

I can create a toon and sit it in SDR all day and say it never got killed too.
why sit when you can stand? kill me with fire ice dragon
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Re: Wizards!

Post by Moco » Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:21 pm

Thorskyl wrote:The real key to survival isn't a HoT or even translocation per se.
+1
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