Reworking Chants?

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Kidsmeal
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Reworking Chants?

Post by Kidsmeal » Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:21 am

I wanted to see if anyone had any ideas regarding chants. I always felt like they were a little bland, and almost too easy to have 3-4 chants running at once. I think limiting the amount of chants allowed per bard would be interesting.

This is mainly to spur some Bard discussion in general.
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VorgrimScout
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Re: Reworking Chants?

Post by VorgrimScout » Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:49 am

I could never get into playing a bard because it felt so passive. At least on other support you were kept busy. A bard could macro its group utility to 90% efficiency, leaving only a couple skills to deciding between a good and bad one.

Not something that can be fixed easily without breaking the class. Maybe turn the HR and SR chants into much stronger versions with cooldowns. Could even do the same thing with SoS and add a melee resist version, though thats really pushing the balance boat.
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Re: Reworking Chants?

Post by Beula » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:14 am

Trains are your limit of chants you can have going.

As to it being passive I would disagree. You have to root strip buffs. Strip debuffs all while dodging pesky minos that just happen to be faster than you. Also don't forget ritardando.

On a side note: anyone notice on the last ptc preview you could spam chants in stealth and wereform? Was it always like this. I'm fairly certiant you couldn't in stealth and I never tried the wereform but everyone always said it broke form so I never tried.

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Re: Reworking Chants?

Post by Morduskull » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:28 am

I didn't notice that but u used to be able to keep 1 chant going whilst in stealth but not cast them.

Kidsmeal
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Re: Reworking Chants?

Post by Kidsmeal » Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:03 pm

Generally, you won't need anything outside of SoS, MR, and Damage Chant while playing meat. Of course, this is all situational other resist chants aren't a bad point sync at certain times.

Personally, I have always considered the SR and HR not worth 80 points.
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Re: Reworking Chants?

Post by Deathmarch » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:50 am

Kidsmeal wrote:Generally, you won't need anything outside of SoS, MR, and Damage Chant while playing meat. Of course, this is all situational other resist chants aren't a bad point sync at certain times.

Personally, I have always considered the SR and HR not worth 80 points.
In GvG they're total wastes. SR sucks no matter what, and who's going to be standing still long enough to benefit from HR?

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Re: Reworking Chants?

Post by Dadoomsong » Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:18 am

Deathmarch wrote:
Kidsmeal wrote:Generally, you won't need anything outside of SoS, MR, and Damage Chant while playing meat. Of course, this is all situational other resist chants aren't a bad point sync at certain times.

Personally, I have always considered the SR and HR not worth 80 points.
In GvG they're total wastes. SR sucks no matter what, and who's going to be standing still long enough to benefit from HR?
an army of HG regen Huntresses :?:
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Re: Reworking Chants?

Post by Morduskull » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:45 am

Dadoomsong wrote:
Deathmarch wrote:
Kidsmeal wrote:Generally, you won't need anything outside of SoS, MR, and Damage Chant while playing meat. Of course, this is all situational other resist chants aren't a bad point sync at certain times.

Personally, I have always considered the SR and HR not worth 80 points.
In GvG they're total wastes. SR sucks no matter what, and who's going to be standing still long enough to benefit from HR?
an army of HG regen Huntresses :?:
I miss when regen didn't suck :(

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Re: Reworking Chants?

Post by Moco » Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:37 am

Morduskull wrote:
Dadoomsong wrote:
Deathmarch wrote: In GvG they're total wastes. SR sucks no matter what, and who's going to be standing still long enough to benefit from HR?
an army of HG regen Huntresses :?:
I miss when regen didn't suck :(
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Re: Reworking Chants?

Post by Morduskull » Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:17 pm

Moco wrote:
Morduskull wrote:
Dadoomsong wrote: an army of HG regen Huntresses :?:
I miss when regen didn't suck :(
QFT
:lol:

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Re: Reworking Chants?

Post by chimpy » Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:07 pm

The easiest way to make the class "less passive" is to add mana costs to the chants like the olden days.

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Re: Reworking Chants?

Post by Siren » Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:42 pm

Increase the damage of the AOE and maybe do something interesting with it like group root effect. BUT make it grant access at 115% focus or find some other way to make it impossable to train all the necessary chants also. This gives the bard a more viable offensive option. Oh, also, give them some bow love please.

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Re: Reworking Chants?

Post by Moco » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:39 pm

Siren wrote:Increase the damage of the AOE and maybe do something interesting with it like group root effect. BUT make it grant access at 115% focus or find some other way to make it impossable to train all the necessary chants also. This gives the bard a more viable offensive option. Oh, also, give them some bow love please.
& Black cloth back!
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Re: Reworking Chants?

Post by Reaper989 » Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:48 am

I don't believe limiting the number of chants is required since 1 GM silence = GG. It's fun doing it to a Sent that is trying to debuff for their group as well.

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Re: Reworking Chants?

Post by Grump » Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:04 am

Moco wrote:
Siren wrote:Increase the damage of the AOE and maybe do something interesting with it like group root effect. BUT make it grant access at 115% focus or find some other way to make it impossable to train all the necessary chants also. This gives the bard a more viable offensive option. Oh, also, give them some bow love please.
& Black cloth back!
I fully support the black bard cloth.
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Re: Reworking Chants?

Post by Da12ksider » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:41 am

Grump wrote:
Moco wrote:
Siren wrote:Increase the damage of the AOE and maybe do something interesting with it like group root effect. BUT make it grant access at 115% focus or find some other way to make it impossable to train all the necessary chants also. This gives the bard a more viable offensive option. Oh, also, give them some bow love please.
& Black cloth back!
I fully support the black bard cloth.
I think a grp root would be nice.
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Re: Reworking Chants?

Post by Thoron » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:03 am

Siren wrote:Increase the damage of the AOE and maybe do something interesting with it like group root effect. BUT make it grant access at 115% focus or find some other way to make it impossable to train all the necessary chants also. This gives the bard a more viable offensive option. Oh, also, give them some bow love please.
I was just saying they needed some bow love in another thread ;)
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Re: Reworking Chants?

Post by Equastro » Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:34 am

Imo if you think a bard is quite passive when it comes to game play, you are playing it wrong.
Sure you can drag a macro bard along but it won't even be close to the potential of a player playing it properly.

Apart from that, I like the chants as they are now X-)

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Re: Reworking Chants?

Post by Da12ksider » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:27 pm

Equastro wrote:Imo if you think a bard is quite passive when it comes to game play, you are playing it wrong.
Sure you can drag a macro bard along but it won't even be close to the potential of a player playing it properly.

Apart from that, I like the chants as they are now X-)
i agree 100%. Even a good support bard cant be macrod to success.
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Reaper989
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Re: Reworking Chants?

Post by Reaper989 » Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:02 am

While it is annoying that people will macro bards... you still have other tools.

Ritardando - Single Target and AoE
Int/Spr/Dex/Str debuffs
1/2 roots - Class and Magewise
SR/HR chants suck... might as well be granted for free or made into 1 chant
Dispel Effect
Dispel Debuff
Movement Buff - Kiting and GTFO
DA - Eh...
Int/Spr buffs incase of dispel (Not generally required, but nice in some cases)
Group Invul


SoS/MR/Dmg - Obviously always running... could always change it so their duration is 2s-3s to restrict them to one chant. At the same time, it would be stupid to hurt a popular support class. Granted, there are other sources of damage chants... my issue mainly is the fact of casters not having 1 bard for SoS/MR when melee is clearly head in DPS in any instance.


So in a sense, it would promote the use of cruasders/rangers for a damage chant, commy dmg chant, WR/Drannok dmg chant, Knight dmg buff, etc for melee groups. But as I stated above, casters stacking resists would be punished... and to be fair meatbane is much more effective then casterbane due to raw DPS/Burst/HP. While a group of casters "can" beat a group of meat/melee, it tends to be still in meat's favor as they can easily bring bow/xbow specs to handle mages while they handle any healers due to snarebreak/immunity.

Overall tho, I stick to my previous reply... GM Silence > Bards.

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Re: Reworking Chants?

Post by Hapahazard » Mon May 20, 2013 9:21 pm

they should just allow you to chain the chants you have trained, and not force you to either macro them or button mash on a timer, between doing what you should be doing anyhow. Its just a broken mechanic, chants should either be on or off, and maybe you should be forced to just choose 3 or something.

yes to weapon skills love for sure. Don't care if its bow, sword, dagger, something should be done to help the rogue bard.

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Re: Reworking Chants?

Post by awttest » Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:29 pm

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Re: Reworking Chants?

Post by awttest » Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:29 pm

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Re: Reworking Chants?

Post by Dirtrot » Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:47 pm

Really...the problem is macroing try playing a bard without macros you'll be asking for 60 sec durations on chants.

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Re: Reworking Chants?

Post by bobcarn » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:39 pm

I really hated how they indirectly nerfed bards. The concocts negated some of the bard's best buffs and chants (STR/DEX, SPI/INT, alacrity), and the traveling stance and direct nerf of the run chant almost made me weep. I understand why they did it. There was a total proliferation of bard bots. It was like those old side-scroller video games where you pilot a ship and as you got powerups, they'd circle around you firing when you did. People ran around with a bard bot following them and cycling through chants. It seemed like most bards were just auto-following bots.

My recommendation would be to make it so that chants (and any spell, for that matter) make you drop out of follow mode, and prevent it from being activated for 30 seconds or so. Yeah you could have a bot, but the second he casts something, he stops following. You would need to take control of the character again to get him to go where you want him. Doing this, we could:

Slightly lower the concocts stats. Just a tad so that they don't come so close to real spells/chants; and

Start out the buffs and chants (the ones that match concocts' buffs) with 15 or 20 free trains. With concocts coming so close to the max on a bard's buffs, you have to train a LOT to just equal what the concocts do, so at least give them a headstart to not make it feel like the first 30/35 trains are wasted.

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