Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Khal
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Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Khal » Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:56 am

Just toying with some ideas, and I was wondering if anyone had any experience with the dps (or hps) difference between an int based dwarf heal priest, and a spi based dwarf heal priest. How big of a hit to dps should someone expect with 60int and max spi, vs an int based heal priest?
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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Vlaad » Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:20 pm

Top end Heals are vastly superior for an int build. However what you lose is large amounts of mana. I prefer larger mana pools on my priests especially considering how many debuffs you have to dispel. I prefer longevity over big numbers

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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Deathmarch » Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:04 pm

The extra heals don't justify the crippled mana pool.

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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by coolstream » Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:02 pm

does spi raise the low end heal damage at the same rate that int raised the top end?

if they both work out the same the HPS should be the same right?
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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Thorskyl » Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:31 pm

coolstream wrote:does spi raise the low end heal damage at the same rate that int raised the top end?

if they both work out the same the HPS should be the same right?
They don't though.
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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Cryfoul » Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:06 pm

Khal wrote:Just toying with some ideas, and I was wondering if anyone had any experience with the dps (or hps) difference between an int based dwarf heal priest, and a spi based dwarf heal priest. How big of a hit to dps should someone expect with 60int and max spi, vs an int based heal priest?
The SPI based dwarf priest is perfectly viable.yes you lose the top end numbers and no the low end numbers do not raise up at the same rate to compersate so over all you do get lower HPS but the SPI based priest has a couple of nice features. More freedom with starting runes / stat points. You never have to keep a strict eye on your mana usage while with the INT build it's a constant worry. Your stronger vs. mana denial groups. It's Far easier and cheaper to build. It still works !

Personally I used to blend the two by building up both INT (25 - 35 rune - could never bring myself to waste a 40 INT on a dwarf priest lol) and SPI (leftovers after i had CON where i wanted it) but that's just my preference and it's not the most efficeint way to go about it because you are still locked into the INT route at startup. Although you end up with a larger mana pool than a regular INT build and better high end numbers than a spi build and I liked that.
Deathmarch wrote:The extra heals don't justify the crippled mana pool.
It's not really crippled though. It's still do-able. I build many minimum mana priests and they do work but they have an extra set of concerns as mana management is going to be a constant worry. The single biggest help was constantly switching from run to walk whenever you engage the enemy. You can also address it through gear. The elite Bell armor was great for added mana/MR and even a jewl slot could be used however then your straying into giving up resists.
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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Deathmarch » Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:33 pm

Yeah I mean, it works, but I find it to be inferior, because the extra heal numbers don't scale at the same rate as you lose extra heals to running OoM, and you're also more reliant on having the MR chants, because without them your mana pool will drain in a matter of seconds just casting spells.

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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Moco » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:26 am

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rawr spi based priest - avg ttw was around that range
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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Cryfoul » Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:23 pm

Deathmarch wrote:Yeah I mean, it works, but I find it to be inferior, because the extra heal numbers don't scale at the same rate as you lose extra heals to running OoM, and you're also more reliant on having the MR chants, because without them your mana pool will drain in a matter of seconds just casting spells.
Death you were in group with me many times while I/we played a priest. When did we ever get a mana chant ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Lol it's doable even without a chant it just takes a lot of attention to mana. I don't even think napstar trained mana chant on his bards lol.
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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Deathmarch » Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:29 pm

Cryfoul wrote:
Deathmarch wrote:Yeah I mean, it works, but I find it to be inferior, because the extra heal numbers don't scale at the same rate as you lose extra heals to running OoM, and you're also more reliant on having the MR chants, because without them your mana pool will drain in a matter of seconds just casting spells.
Death you were in group with me many times while I/we played a priest. When did we ever get a mana chant ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Lol it's doable even without a chant it just takes a lot of attention to mana. I don't even think napstar trained mana chant on his bards lol.
Exactly, and I was always running out of mana!

Lol yeah it's definitely workable, but I just think it's too much of a headache. Tbh if I knew I'd have a bard nearby all the time running MR, I'd be a bit more wiling to go full int, because during the previews when I was running in a group with a bard my mana would shoot up by the hundreds in a matter of seconds. If I ran out, I could literally just sit and be back up to half my pool in like 5 secs. It was pretty awesome, tbh.

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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Reaper989 » Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:51 pm

100 int is all you need bro :D

140-160 con+
Near 100 spr
Win

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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by GoldenChild » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:03 pm

Is it a safe assumption that Dwarf is the only race you would recommend going spirit based on? Obviously they make the best priests but some people like to switch it up a bit. So could I go spirit based on a Cent or something else?

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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Moco » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:57 pm

GoldenChild wrote:Is it a safe assumption that Dwarf is the only race you would recommend going spirit based on? Obviously they make the best priests but some people like to switch it up a bit. So could I go spirit based on a Cent or something else?
You can go spirit on any priest really. I normally build most my priests with the same target, A LARGE mana pool of course you won't hit 1k tends everytime like a int build would, but you don't run oom chain casting the dispell & heals, which in my book is a bigger win
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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by GoldenChild » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:08 pm

Moco wrote:
GoldenChild wrote:Is it a safe assumption that Dwarf is the only race you would recommend going spirit based on? Obviously they make the best priests but some people like to switch it up a bit. So could I go spirit based on a Cent or something else?
You can go spirit on any priest really. I normally build most my priests with the same target, A LARGE mana pool of course you won't hit 1k tends everytime like a int build would, but you don't run oom chain casting the dispell & heals, which in my book is a bigger win

What kind of mana pool am I looking at with 150 or so spirit? 150 seems about where I should get to on a cent without gimping con or int too badly unless I messed up the math somewhere.

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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by ARMS » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:43 pm

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int base good now healer elite item MR enough
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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by TheMightyZim » Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:24 pm

The int based priest is without a doubt better but WAY more expensive.

You can make a cheap and easy dwarf heal priest that will work just fine with 85int and only requires a large con rune.
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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Heyzeuss » Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:10 am

I'll always go for a pretty generous split between int/spr on a priest, with Int always out edgin over spr.
Some fights you just have to keep moving and having the extra mana is always a bonus.
More mana you have the more you regen.
And since people live off the HoT, having the spr makes sure it doesn't sometimes tick like complete trash.

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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by arkhar » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:41 am

Like the old minotaur doomsayers (assuming the mechanics are still the same) - Spirit based healers can actually get it so their minimum heal on the range is ABOVE the maximum heal. And these days with the needed spam on the debuff cleanse you are gonna need as much mana as you can get.

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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by dbltnk » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:02 pm

SPI based. Cheaper. Heals longer. HPS still easily good enough.

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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by peekachew » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:56 pm

Honestly I've found that 100 spi and 90 int is pretty much the sweet spot.

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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Rewen » Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:50 pm

arkhar wrote:Like the old minotaur doomsayers (assuming the mechanics are still the same) - Spirit based healers can actually get it so their minimum heal on the range is ABOVE the maximum heal. And these days with the needed spam on the debuff cleanse you are gonna need as much mana as you can get.

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"The Wrath of Con" died when they increased Minotaur base intelligence just enough so they could stack int runes. Points in spirit are sort of wasted on any doomsayer nowadays. I don't know about priests though, I've heard good things about spirit-based birds.

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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Dyson » Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:56 pm

If you're still making Priests without ToM and under 80 spirit, you're more than 5 years behind the times.
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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Zergd » Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:21 pm

While ToM is the best rune for a priest, I wouldn't make the first part of your blanket statement without excluding dwarves.

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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Dyson » Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:22 pm

Zergd wrote:While ToM is the best rune for a priest, I wouldn't make the first part of your blanket statement without excluding dwarves.
I would and I did.
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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Kris » Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:17 am

Dyson wrote:
Zergd wrote:While ToM is the best rune for a priest, I wouldn't make the first part of your blanket statement without excluding dwarves.
I would and I did.
I'd pretty much have to agree with that statement I think.
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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by ArkanisGath » Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:00 pm

After hearing much praise from experienced players, I will surely try out a spirit priest.

I have never made one. 1k heals always sounded very appealing to me. The way i built dwarf priest was pretty basic: step up with 10/20/30/40 int, 40 con rune, rest into spr. Running out of mana - sure it was an issue, but it could be contained. Instantly swiching from running into walking was the basic tool, and i had to be carefull about the 100 mana cost dispell debuff. Mana chant was rare. Still with those two things in mind I seldom had mana problems.

Those problems occured usually when I encountered a group with a mana drainer. Those could render me useless in a matter of seconds. But more often than not, the groups you would encounter by the end of the game were just plain damage burst specs, designed to quickly dispose of the mark and move to another target. When fighting those, a int based priest has the upper hand in my opinion.

I suppose it all comes down to the type of opponents you are facing. If the server would introduce opponents using multiple debuffs and mana drains, rather than those concentraiting on pure damage, the spirit priest would become much more viable. But considering the state shadowbane was in the last year before shut down, I think the int build was more viable.

I am not taking into consideration the fact that spirit priests are much, much cheaper to build. It is a priest, one of the most vital proffesio0n in group combat. You sould not consider cost when building one of those.

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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Thoron » Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:17 pm

Does spirit help with stun atr or is that just an int focus skill type deal?
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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by ArkanisGath » Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:40 pm

Yes but not as much as inteligence. Spirit is the secondary stat for theurgy so increasing it will increse your atr 2/3 slower than increasing int would.


Edit: i have found myself pretty far away from the mayh behind shadowbane during those years. Was it: 6 points into spr = 1 point increse in theurgy? Correct me if im wrong guys.

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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Thoron » Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:53 pm

Spirit.. the final frontier :P
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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Zergd » Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:35 pm

ArkanisGath wrote:After hearing much praise from experienced players, I will surely try out a spirit priest.

I have never made one. 1k heals always sounded very appealing to me. The way i built dwarf priest was pretty basic: step up with 10/20/30/40 int, 40 con rune, rest into spr. Running out of mana - sure it was an issue, but it could be contained. Instantly swiching from running into walking was the basic tool, and i had to be carefull about the 100 mana cost dispell debuff. Mana chant was rare. Still with those two things in mind I seldom had mana problems.

Those problems occured usually when I encountered a group with a mana drainer. Those could render me useless in a matter of seconds. But more often than not, the groups you would encounter by the end of the game were just plain damage burst specs, designed to quickly dispose of the mark and move to another target. When fighting those, a int based priest has the upper hand in my opinion.

I suppose it all comes down to the type of opponents you are facing. If the server would introduce opponents using multiple debuffs and mana drains, rather than those concentraiting on pure damage, the spirit priest would become much more viable. But considering the state shadowbane was in the last year before shut down, I think the int build was more viable.

I am not taking into consideration the fact that spirit priests are much, much cheaper to build. It is a priest, one of the most vital proffesio0n in group combat. You sould not consider cost when building one of those.
I don't disagree with anything in your post.

I have played both base spirit priests and max spirit priests. My conclusion is, your mana pool and regen should be high enough so that you never second-guess spamming dispel debuff. This number is different for every person and every circumstance. A 15 spirit rune is sufficient in 99% of cases. I would definitely not sacrifice int to attain a mana pool of over 2000 for example. Int is still the primary stat responsible for heals, passive defense, and secondarily hp as a dwarf (this is balanced out quite a bit by losing 5 con at creation). Forgoing int runes on a dwarf means that you are missing out on as much as 30% block for example.

Also, the answer to your question is 7.5 spr per point at the minimum. The live servers used a lookup table it looks like to calculate base percentages. The amount of stat points per skill point decreases until it hits a floor that most characters get to by 75.

TL;DR It is my opinion that you obtain some minimally comfortable health and mana pool so that you can spike the really important stat.

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