Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Dyson
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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Dyson » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:24 am

Zergd wrote:TL;DR It is my opinion that you obtain some minimally comfortable health and mana pool so that you can spike the really important stat.
Your opinion is wrong. Get a new one.
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Zergd
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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Zergd » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:29 am

Dyson wrote:
Zergd wrote:TL;DR It is my opinion that you obtain some minimally comfortable health and mana pool so that you can spike the really important stat.
Your opinion is wrong. Get a new one.
I'm sorry, you lack the credentials required to post with that arrogance.

Dyson
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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Dyson » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:50 am

Zergd wrote:
Dyson wrote:
Zergd wrote:TL;DR It is my opinion that you obtain some minimally comfortable health and mana pool so that you can spike the really important stat.
Your opinion is wrong. Get a new one.
I'm sorry, you lack the credentials required to post with that arrogance.
No, I really really don't.
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peekachew
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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by peekachew » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:17 pm

As I've stated before i think if your maxing between one of the two stats youre doing it wrong. The blends work the best in my opinion. Yes Taint of madness is awesome but on a dwarf you scarifice way too much int to take it. With Necro bots, bard chants gm mana recov from priests and a few pieces of jewls that give % to mana regen. Your mana really shouldn't be a problem at all. With that said though, mana regen does work better off larger mana pools so your goal is to aim for at minimum a mana pool of 1600. These are all my opinions.

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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Deathmarch » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:43 pm

lol 70 int is plenty for a dwarf priest

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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by peekachew » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:16 pm

Deathmarch wrote:lol 70 int is plenty for a dwarf priest



Nah its gimp...

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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Pollarixie » Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:50 pm

I didn't realize that people still don't know how to build priests.

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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Gargon » Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:47 am

.......... Screen refreshed making me start this all over again, sigh.. Int gives you more trains without causing the use of more points. If I am correct you can train abilities that increase mana pool. If not you still want to be able to savor as many points as possible. I ran with this guy a long time back that made an Aelf or Elf can't remember the race. This was a priest and all that I got from his build was GM shield and heals. He was in med green looking armor not sure as the type never made one myself looked like a crown on his head. At R4 I was leveling him at a camp and this R7 UA dwarf rolled up in his teddy bear looking gear and beat on him for a very long time. Needless to say the dwarf was walking away when he ran out of stamina attempting to kill him. Was a funny sight.

But back on track, roll one of each 3 types and give it a go INT SPI CON builds as basic as that and check them out against a doomy. We all expect to get a debuff so that would be the last thing on my mind in building a toon unless I was planning on fighting with it. The group are your protectors you need everything you can on a tick to keep them going.

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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Dyson » Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:44 am

70 base Int on a Dwarf is more than acceptable given the current state of both TtW and IoR. In the current meta, healing for an average of 700 with and against competent players nets you the exact same result as healing for 900 does in most situations. If two or three 700 point heals every few seconds aren't keeping your target up, it's very likely that you're trying to heal some r5 mage bard in a cc robe who doesn't know how to kite effectively or call for strips, and you weren't keeping that trash up with 900 heals either. Also, it's worth noting that TtW has a 2.5 second cast and a 0.5 second (3 including cast time) recast and IoR has a 1 second cast and a 1 second (0 including cast time) recast. I feel like I'm going to have to explain enough already but it doesn't take a genius to work out how you should be using both of these powers together, why IoR is just as important as TtW, and therefore why a larger mana pool is extremely important considering the 100 cost of IoR.

Going high base Int on a Dwarf is extremely wasteful stat point wise. Not only does Wizard's Apprentice costs you 18 stat points for +10 Int, but you also have to give up access to some of the best traits in the game to get it. My question here is, if you're looking for a balanced stat spread and aren't looking at going over something like 100 Int anyway, what the fuck are you taking this shit for? You're going to spend 45 stat points (WA, Clever, +15 Int) for +35 Int? gj bro. Wizard's Apprentice is a go big or go home rune and you're not going big so you might want to do that other thing.

The only differences between base Int and buffed Int are how many training points it will let you invest in skill lines and what your base skill % will be in order to unlock spell/equipment access. Beyond that, 12 Int from a ring suffix and 12 base Int will reap you the exact same benefits in terms of adding to your healing power and skill % lines. Why do I feel the need to point this out? Because I know many many players that will go this WA route, and then use 35/+12 Con rings like retards. If you're going with 35/+12 rings, you can opt for Int instead of your usual Con choice and save the stat points at creation. Sure, +24 Int isn't +35 Int, but it costs you nothing bar a lower golded Block %, which access to TbMoA will help ease the pain of. If you're going with 35/15 rings (which are optimal in more situations than they are not), you need both high base Con and Spi anyway, and you won't achieve a suitable enough base mana pool going the higher base Int route. Either way, it makes absolutely no sense to go the Wizard's Apprentice route at creation. People still using this starting trait setup are just stuck in their ways and haven't took a fresh look at Priests post-Patch 20.

tldr; Priesting is more than big blue numbers. IoR is up there with TtW as the most overpowered spells in the game, and it requires a shit ton of mana to make good use out of.
Last edited by Dyson on Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Zergd » Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:36 pm

Yes, if you are wearing 35/12 or 35/15 everywhere without the healer helm and gloves, then the spirit build is probably the way to go. However, if you went to some of the banes and mines I went to in which there probably wasn't an active caster on the whole field, then the int build is far better and makes perfect sense to have. Even against casters at a mine, I could run double stat jewels and never get hit anyway with good positioning, although I would cover magic. The nice thing is you can have both builds in reserve. If we were arguing over which build to have if we could only have one, I would choose the spirit build.

PS: Not all priests get to a target at the same time. An extra couple hundred points on a heal can be the difference between someone getting a snare and powerblock stripped and sprinting or a grave. Especially if somebody would have fanned on a % heal. The additional 12 points in toughness from 60 int are worth anywhere from 6 to 8 con, making wizard's apprentice a much better investment by itself. Saying you can take TbMoA to ease the pain of losing block is also flawed because I can do the same thing on an int build and it will be worth more because passive defense gets more valuable the higher the skill goes.

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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Dyson » Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:19 am

Zergd wrote:If we were arguing over which build to have if we could only have one, I would choose the spirit build.
ok thanks
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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Loeg » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:23 am

The difference between ToM and 10spi is relatively minor, and there are many builds on which you can't take ToM because you've too few points left after taking the more important traits. Being a priest may be more than big blue numbers, but big blue numbers are the basics of being a priest. There is quite a difference in healing power when you go high spi and high int, and this is greatly emphasized by whatever %bonuses are active. This difference is perfectly visible whatever you want to tell yourself, unless you're a spoilt kid running with 4 (bad) priests everywhere you go.

The spi/int/con balance is certainly not a closed problem. Big blue numbers may become less important as the scale of the fight/your side grows significantly larger, but I'm sure we don't need to go into that kind of specifics unless you want to at least reconsider PoM first ;o)

tldr; you're wrong.

Dyson
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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Dyson » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:59 pm

no u r wrong im da best
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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Loeg » Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:18 pm

You tried to catch the wild dyson...
Oh no! The wild dyson got away! :\

ps. You're still wrong though.

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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Kris » Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:59 pm

Loeg wrote:The difference between ToM and 10spi is relatively minor, and there are many builds on which you can't take ToM because you've too few points left after taking the more important traits.

tldr; you're wrong.
What more important traits? Are you talking about intelligence traits as more important than ToM?
Loeg wrote:Being a priest may be more than big blue numbers, but big blue numbers are the basics of being a priest. There is quite a difference in healing power when you go high spi and high int, and this is greatly emphasized by whatever %bonuses are active. This difference is perfectly visible whatever you want to tell yourself, unless you're a spoilt kid running with 4 (bad) priests everywhere you go.
The difference in healing power between 85 int/105 spr and a 145 / 57 spr (60 int difference) centaur priest builds is about 60hp per heal or about 8%. I also had to gimp out the int build a little bit so I could take both int runes. That 8% won't make that large of a difference in a fight from my experience and it is more worthwhile to look for sustainability rather than larger heals.

The only reason to go with an int build is so that you can spike block. This makes intelligence builds better suited for meat fights but the spirit priest is still perfectly viable in that category. The intelligence build will however find some troubles against certain caster groups, this is where the spirit build excels. Not to mention like I said above, the spirit build is more sustainable and can stay in a fight longer than the intelligence build.

Overall the spirit priest is better in open field because it's likely you'll find many different specs throughout a given day but if you know that you are fighting meat vs meat (a bane for example) then the superior choice is the intelligence build.
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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Riffats » Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:42 pm

STR based priests are win, with procs
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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by peekachew » Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:50 pm

Kris wrote:
Loeg wrote:The difference between ToM and 10spi is relatively minor, and there are many builds on which you can't take ToM because you've too few points left after taking the more important traits.

tldr; you're wrong.
What more important traits? Are you talking about intelligence traits as more important than ToM?
Loeg wrote:Being a priest may be more than big blue numbers, but big blue numbers are the basics of being a priest. There is quite a difference in healing power when you go high spi and high int, and this is greatly emphasized by whatever %bonuses are active. This difference is perfectly visible whatever you want to tell yourself, unless you're a spoilt kid running with 4 (bad) priests everywhere you go.
The difference in healing power between 85 int/105 spr and a 145 / 57 spr (60 int difference) centaur priest builds is about 60hp per heal or about 8%. I also had to gimp out the int build a little bit so I could take both int runes. That 8% won't make that large of a difference in a fight from my experience and it is more worthwhile to look for sustainability rather than larger heals.

The only reason to go with an int build is so that you can spike block. This makes intelligence builds better suited for meat fights but the spirit priest is still perfectly viable in that category. The intelligence build will however find some troubles against certain caster groups, this is where the spirit build excels. Not to mention like I said above, the spirit build is more sustainable and can stay in a fight longer than the intelligence build.

Overall the spirit priest is better in open field because it's likely you'll find many different specs throughout a given day but if you know that you are fighting meat vs meat (a bane for example) then the superior choice is the intelligence build.

90 int 100 spi for a dwarf.... ill choose this all day. My mana pool is 1875. I regen about as much mana as it takes for a tend the wounded to go off and the mana used comes right back full circle. I heal on average for 800-900. A spi priest just doesn't heal that hard and some times those heals dip as low as 600. I just don't think an extra 200 mana in my pool that im gonna regen back ne ways really makes a difference. This is also without void and bard buffs and without simerons song I don't even have clanwarden yet mainly because theres always been a priest in my group that has it. On a centaur though, i think you should only go the spi route but i think dwarf seems to provide more viable choices especially since theres a power buff involved.

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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Dyson » Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:01 am

still da best
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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Deathmarch » Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:22 pm

I'm gonna spend 41 points for 30 int, yeah, funny joke. That's a whole extra stat rune I could apply by not using a retarded build, and then if I really want bigger heals I can run 24 int jewels to make up for the lack of base int.

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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by peekachew » Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:06 pm

Deathmarch wrote:I'm gonna spend 41 points for 30 int, yeah, funny joke. That's a whole extra stat rune I could apply by not using a retarded build, and then if I really want bigger heals I can run 24 int jewels to make up for the lack of base int.
Much higher avg ttw , higher block, toughness and a 200 to 300 less mana pool that doesn't matter because of regen and void. Yeah seems like a horrible trade off enjoy those 600 tend the wounded or wear no resist jewls. Clearly inferior.

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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by leahnnovash » Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:23 pm

Can we do both?

-------The Basics---------

Race: Human
Class: Healer
Profession: Priest

------Applied Runes-------

Taint of Madness
Faith of Ages
Born of the Irydnu
Incredible Intelligence
Incredible Spirit

----------Stats-----------

Strength: 35/100
Dexterity: 25/100
Constitution: 93/100
Intelligence: 130/130
Spirit: 130/130

--------------------------

Viable?

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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Braxis » Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:35 am

Obviously the one real method to playing an effective heal priest is lost to you guys. All these responses are correct. But a real dedicated priest player knows what build works best.


All of them. I always have an acct dedicated just for priests. Spi based, int based, stun priests, different races. How many of you have rolled more than one priest on a server? If you have the tools, and you know what you're up against, use them. I have a priest to play against meat, one for casters, one for ranged like xbows, one for fliers or having a flight spec, etc. And they're all geared accordingly, so no swapping gear and scrambling at the last minute or between fights.
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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by tooshifty » Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:18 am

what ever happened to runed of genius gear? im not bashing the spirit priest, its a good idea. I've only run oom once so far on my priest, but i didnt have any runed jewels on lolz. i should probably get on that. ............ as far as birds go. its pretty hard to oom on a bird priest. That MR 0.0 ....
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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Khal » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:21 am

People run priests without resists??? Interesting.
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Re: Spi Based Vs. Int Based

Post by Marksman » Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:57 pm

Deathmarch wrote:The extra heals don't justify the crippled mana pool.

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