this class is silly op

spazgar
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this class is silly op

Post by spazgar » Sat May 04, 2013 1:45 pm

yes?
yes.
wut

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Re: this class is silly op

Post by Ajushi » Sat May 04, 2013 3:01 pm

Acquire a glass bow and then roll a bird scout. Problem solved.
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Re: this class is silly op

Post by spazgar » Sat May 04, 2013 3:15 pm

no.
a def debuff, two atr debuffs, aoe def and atr cut, passive def debuff, healing debuff, attack speed debuff, bleeds, and an expose and thats just weapon powers and coughing gas, nevermind sneak, snare/root break, parry and dodge, running, an extra sprint, i mean, what else could you want? i was sitting in someone's city the other day and at one point i was fighting 4 people at once and i managed to kill one of them, get away, pot up and kill the other 3 that shouldn't happen ever, class is broken.
wut

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Re: this class is silly op

Post by cashmoneyflow » Sat May 04, 2013 3:18 pm

spazgar wrote:no.
a def debuff, two atr debuffs, aoe def and atr cut, passive def debuff, healing debuff, attack speed debuff, bleeds, and an expose and thats just weapon powers and coughing gas, nevermind sneak, snare/root break, parry and dodge, running, an extra sprint, i mean, what else could you want? i was sitting in someone's city the other day and at one point i was fighting 4 people at once and i managed to kill one of them, get away, pot up and kill the other 3 that shouldn't happen ever, class is broken.
I agree 100%.
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Re: this class is silly op

Post by Ajushi » Sat May 04, 2013 3:50 pm

Not everyone seems to agree on that.

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Re: this class is silly op

Post by spazgar » Sat May 04, 2013 3:52 pm

so your reason is that because there are more scouts online than thieves, they aren't op?
k
wut

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Re: this class is silly op

Post by Ajushi » Sat May 04, 2013 4:06 pm

Well no, I'm just pointing out how ridiculous it is saying thieves are OP when you, your buddy and half the hotzone population at any given time are scouts, not thieves.
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Re: this class is silly op

Post by spazgar » Sat May 04, 2013 4:39 pm

when i want to farm a hotzone, i log on a scout and a sentinel, one to run out and find a safe place and to watch track, the other to kill mobs and loot and recall when things come on track. when i want to roll it, i log on a scout and a thief, one character and run out and find people and summon myself in and occasionally pop someone, the other to kill everything in sight. guess what class does what?
since we're playing screenshots, i'll counter you taking a screenshot of me being online pl'ing my scout, with one of me being online playing my thief.
http://i.imgur.com/SxuWdcT.jpg?1
wut

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Re: this class is silly op

Post by Ajushi » Sat May 04, 2013 4:52 pm

Pick a bird rogue that you believe can't accomplish that and I will give it a go. (without an evac bot)
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Re: this class is silly op

Post by spazgar » Sat May 04, 2013 5:01 pm

bard assassin huntress scout barb. also i didn't evac, i went to cn's tree because i didn't think anyone was coming back.
edit- ranger, whatever, your choice it doesn't change my point.
wut

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Re: this class is silly op

Post by Skullsplitter » Mon May 06, 2013 1:16 pm

I'm with ajushi on this one scouts are just as op. Also does anyone not use pb's and stuns on a thief?
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Re: this class is silly op

Post by Telemakus » Mon May 06, 2013 2:27 pm

Thieves are silly op indeed. Scouts are silly OP as well, but not as great offensively as the thief.

Stealthers, IMO, need a major tune up.
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Re: this class is silly op

Post by Rewen » Mon May 06, 2013 2:30 pm

OP how? at an open tree? That's all a thief has, really. You don't often see them at banes or mines.

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Re: this class is silly op

Post by Thoron » Mon May 06, 2013 3:44 pm

Rewen wrote:OP how? at an open tree? That's all a thief has, really. You don't often see them at banes or mines.
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Re: this class is silly op

Post by tooshifty » Mon May 06, 2013 4:03 pm

I think birds are becoming a huge op issue too.
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Re: this class is silly op

Post by Moco » Mon May 06, 2013 4:33 pm

tooshifty wrote:I think birds are becoming a huge op issue too.
er










no
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Re: this class is silly op

Post by Telemakus » Mon May 06, 2013 6:33 pm

Rewen wrote:OP how? at an open tree? That's all a thief has, really. You don't often see them at banes or mines.
The game is not entirely based on banes and mines. Balancing classes solely based on their roles in those departments would be an error.

This aint Guild Wars where you hit a button and pop into RvR. There's a massive pvp game outside of just those two features. If you try and balance the game solely based off of mines and banes, you'll have a guaranteed dead game.
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Re: this class is silly op

Post by zenjah » Mon May 06, 2013 6:41 pm

spazgar wrote:when i want to farm a hotzone, i log on a scout and a sentinel, one to run out and find a safe place and to watch track, the other to kill mobs and loot and recall when things come on track. when i want to roll it, i log on a scout and a thief, one character and run out and find people and summon myself in and occasionally pop someone, the other to kill everything in sight. guess what class does what?
since we're playing screenshots, i'll counter you taking a screenshot of me being online pl'ing my scout, with one of me being online playing my thief.
http://i.imgur.com/SxuWdcT.jpg?1
That screenshot proves that the Bearkin Stockade is silly OP.
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Re: this class is silly op

Post by Rewen » Mon May 06, 2013 7:29 pm

Telemakus wrote:
Rewen wrote:OP how? at an open tree? That's all a thief has, really. You don't often see them at banes or mines.
The game is not entirely based on banes and mines. Balancing classes solely based on their roles in those departments would be an error.

This aint Guild Wars where you hit a button and pop into RvR. There's a massive pvp game outside of just those two features. If you try and balance the game solely based off of mines and banes, you'll have a guaranteed dead game.
Alright alright

Well if they get any nerfs at all, steal should become 20 range and usable while moving :3

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Re: this class is silly op

Post by Telemakus » Mon May 06, 2013 7:41 pm

Rewen wrote:
Telemakus wrote:
Rewen wrote:OP how? at an open tree? That's all a thief has, really. You don't often see them at banes or mines.
The game is not entirely based on banes and mines. Balancing classes solely based on their roles in those departments would be an error.

This aint Guild Wars where you hit a button and pop into RvR. There's a massive pvp game outside of just those two features. If you try and balance the game solely based off of mines and banes, you'll have a guaranteed dead game.
Alright alright

Well if they get any nerfs at all, steal should become 20 range and usable while moving :3
Lol. I would advocate removal of caughing gas entirely, and a general nerf to stealth.
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Re: this class is silly op

Post by Mac » Mon May 06, 2013 7:44 pm

zenjah wrote:
spazgar wrote:when i want to farm a hotzone, i log on a scout and a sentinel, one to run out and find a safe place and to watch track, the other to kill mobs and loot and recall when things come on track. when i want to roll it, i log on a scout and a thief, one character and run out and find people and summon myself in and occasionally pop someone, the other to kill everything in sight. guess what class does what?
since we're playing screenshots, i'll counter you taking a screenshot of me being online pl'ing my scout, with one of me being online playing my thief.
http://i.imgur.com/SxuWdcT.jpg?1
That screenshot proves that the Bearkin Stockade is silly OP.
Why the hell are 2 godly runes dropping for at the same time?
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Re: this class is silly op

Post by Cryfowl » Mon May 06, 2013 7:46 pm

spazgar wrote:no.
a def debuff, two atr debuffs, aoe def and atr cut, passive def debuff, healing debuff, attack speed debuff, bleeds, and an expose and thats just weapon powers and coughing gas, nevermind sneak, snare/root break, parry and dodge, running, an extra sprint, i mean, what else could you want? i was sitting in someone's city the other day and at one point i was fighting 4 people at once and i managed to kill one of them, get away, pot up and kill the other 3 that shouldn't happen ever, class is broken.
What else would i want ?

I would want:

all GM stances, GM backstabs and Crippling blow for when CG is on cooldown. (actually i prefer CB over CG) OHH wait they already have all that too lol.
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Re: this class is silly op

Post by Cryfowl » Mon May 06, 2013 7:52 pm

Telemakus wrote:
Rewen wrote:
Telemakus wrote:
The game is not entirely based on banes and mines. Balancing classes solely based on their roles in those departments would be an error.

This aint Guild Wars where you hit a button and pop into RvR. There's a massive pvp game outside of just those two features. If you try and balance the game solely based off of mines and banes, you'll have a guaranteed dead game.
Alright alright

Well if they get any nerfs at all, steal should become 20 range and usable while moving :3
Lol. I would advocate removal of caughing gas entirely, and a general nerf to stealth.
Removing instastealth only hurts all rogues and that's not the best way to fix 1 (or 2) that are OP. Instead of smacking the entire rogue class with the nerf bat how about rolling back the extra un-needed dagger power love that was introduced on the last patch ? How about fixing the never intended never repaired double backstab exploit ? Then increase the powerblock on stealthing to a meaningful 3 seconds (or maybe even 4 or 5) and thieves will be fixed as they have just lost 30% of their DPS. While none of the other rogues will suffer much except ironically scouts to a lesser extent.
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Re: this class is silly op

Post by Ajushi » Mon May 06, 2013 9:17 pm

Double backstab would be possible with an 18 sec pb on stealth...

It's running that makes scouts and thieves so popular. It's too cheap to train and provides too much of a bonus. Lower the effectiveness per train and make it train like other focus, so that scouting scouts and thieving thieves can still get their jobs done, but give up combat prowess for the CHOICE.

Having running and sprints stack with the bonus from flying is another reason why you can expect to see multiple bird bow scouts/dagger thieves ot if you go to a hotzone.
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Re: this class is silly op

Post by Cryfowl » Mon May 06, 2013 10:48 pm

Ajushi wrote:Double backstab would be possible with an 18 sec pb on stealth...

.
Umm. . . . . yes. :? but those were actually two different sentences in my post.

I never presumed or said that lengthening the PB on stealth would fix the double backstab. Only that the double backstab is an OP exploit that i feel was never intended by the original devs and yet never fixed and it should be. Lengthening the PB on stealth only serves to reduce the offensive capabilities on some of the more overpowered rogues while leaving the defensive priority of the rogue class intact.
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Re: this class is silly op

Post by spazgar » Tue May 07, 2013 6:07 am

i think making only gm hide instant and reverting sneak back to whatever it was before it was instant would be a good start. the problem is too much damage along with too much utility, you should have to pick one, not get tons of both.
wut

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Re: this class is silly op

Post by peekachew » Tue May 07, 2013 9:25 am

Honestly, crippling blow is one of the main problems... should not be insta-cast with no recast timer.

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Re: this class is silly op

Post by Moco » Tue May 07, 2013 9:32 am

I liked it better when thieves were meant to steal and were feared for that exact reason :?
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Re: this class is silly op

Post by BigDaddy » Tue May 07, 2013 10:30 am

spazgar wrote:i think making only gm hide instant and reverting sneak back to whatever it was before it was instant would be a good start. the problem is too much damage along with too much utility, you should have to pick one, not get tons of both.
This is how it was for most of my playtime and Rogues still thrived. Sneak was a 4 second cast I think. It required a bit more risk and skill and of course if you GM both it left you less points to OP people with.

And I agree about the stealing - surely thieves were meant to steal stuff - finish off wounded or quickly gank the most vulnerable toons - and probably get away if they didn't take the [fluffy bunnies]. To think they can kill most classes, even several skilled players at a time is just ridiculous. Once they have lost the element of surprise, most toons should kick their arse.
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Re: this class is silly op

Post by Rewen » Tue May 07, 2013 11:43 am

Moco wrote:I liked it better when thieves were meant to steal and were feared for that exact reason :?
I did too, but with Scoutbane these opportunities are few and far-between. Detect should be less of a faceroll IMO.

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