Anti-scout

Citizendildo
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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Citizendildo » Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:01 am

Beula wrote:
Thoron wrote:I wouldn't say it is a crutch but I don't see how it is "vastly" superior.. I'm no scout expert so i'm curious as to why aracoix is the end all be all scout?
Flight, Skydancer, high base con/dex
A bird is better for random ganking with a high kill rate, but a int/con human/aelf can not be initiated by anything other than a scout unless they're retarded, and they can out heal any other scout except an int vamp or a WR, and it's so simple to outrange a vamp or skin a WR. When it comes to scouting it's con scout regardless, and when it comes to fighting other rogues, int con will outheal and outdamage and out stam the others. I made to my and many others knowledge the first con/dex bird scout(mid vengeance), and when I made a int/con aelf scout it was hands down inferior due to RC heals and extra points which help out running and all that other great things. I myself always and will have 5+ scouts within 1-2 months after live, so I can choose what I want, but an int/con human will barely beat a aelf, and they'll beat the rest. Also a dex/con bird will beat a vamp, and after that is vamp in the 4thish slot. I enjoyed them all, and a glass vamp will do more dmg to random PLers than int/con and a bird will do slightly less while not being a 1 shot dot. If you're good a int/con scout will never die and get plenty of claims/runes/info in the process. no character in the game can kill a properly built/played int/con scout, you can win(rogues and and anything that can't get to you with 190% running) or leave, any casters that you don't instagib/stun u, u can not unstealth or run away.

EDIt: if u want to gank/gank. Huntress and thief are better equipped, if you want to scout and control the battlefield, scout.

EDITEDIT: Olympic Dressage is OP- damn you NBC.

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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Kargrym » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:04 pm

Where is Vandarr when you need him. He could settle this.

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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Cryfowl » Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:40 pm

Citizendildo wrote:
Beula wrote:
Thoron wrote:I wouldn't say it is a crutch but I don't see how it is "vastly" superior.. I'm no scout expert so i'm curious as to why aracoix is the end all be all scout?
Flight, Skydancer, high base con/dex
A bird is better for random ganking with a high kill rate, but a int/con human/aelf can not be initiated by anything other than a scout unless they're retarded, and they can out heal any other scout except an int vamp or a WR, and it's so simple to outrange a vamp or skin a WR. When it comes to scouting it's con scout regardless, and when it comes to fighting other rogues, int con will outheal and outdamage and out stam the others. I made to my and many others knowledge the first con/dex bird scout(mid vengeance), and when I made a int/con aelf scout it was hands down inferior due to RC heals and extra points which help out running and all that other great things. I myself always and will have 5+ scouts within 1-2 months after live, so I can choose what I want, but an int/con human will barely beat a aelf, and they'll beat the rest. Also a dex/con bird will beat a vamp, and after that is vamp in the 4thish slot. I enjoyed them all, and a glass vamp will do more dmg to random PLers than int/con and a bird will do slightly less while not being a 1 shot dot. If you're good a int/con scout will never die and get plenty of claims/runes/info in the process. no character in the game can kill a properly built/played int/con scout, you can win(rogues and and anything that can't get to you with 190% running) or leave, any casters that you don't instagib/stun u, u can not unstealth or run away.

EDIt: if u want to gank/gank. Huntress and thief are better equipped, if you want to scout and control the battlefield, scout.

EDITEDIT: Olympic Dressage is OP- damn you NBC.
Ummm I agree with 99% with what you said but how in the hell does WR out heal anything ? Rethink that one. . . . WR gives absolutely no benefit to heals - it creates a disadvantage (Glad and Rc heals both break wereform !) You can't even use a pot to fill that CON bonus form gives you ! As far as the INT vamp goes the CON/INT aelf or human can win that fight every time through skillful play and a good understanding of the vamp's mandated playstyle.

The birds are good for sure but the CON/INt scout dominates all other scouts if played well - period.
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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Equastro » Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:12 am

Cryfowl wrote:
Citizendildo wrote:
Beula wrote: Flight, Skydancer, high base con/dex
A bird is better for random ganking with a high kill rate, but a int/con human/aelf can not be initiated by anything other than a scout unless they're retarded, and they can out heal any other scout except an int vamp or a WR, and it's so simple to outrange a vamp or skin a WR. When it comes to scouting it's con scout regardless, and when it comes to fighting other rogues, int con will outheal and outdamage and out stam the others. I made to my and many others knowledge the first con/dex bird scout(mid vengeance), and when I made a int/con aelf scout it was hands down inferior due to RC heals and extra points which help out running and all that other great things. I myself always and will have 5+ scouts within 1-2 months after live, so I can choose what I want, but an int/con human will barely beat a aelf, and they'll beat the rest. Also a dex/con bird will beat a vamp, and after that is vamp in the 4thish slot. I enjoyed them all, and a glass vamp will do more dmg to random PLers than int/con and a bird will do slightly less while not being a 1 shot dot. If you're good a int/con scout will never die and get plenty of claims/runes/info in the process. no character in the game can kill a properly built/played int/con scout, you can win(rogues and and anything that can't get to you with 190% running) or leave, any casters that you don't instagib/stun u, u can not unstealth or run away.

EDIt: if u want to gank/gank. Huntress and thief are better equipped, if you want to scout and control the battlefield, scout.

EDITEDIT: Olympic Dressage is OP- damn you NBC.
Ummm I agree with 99% with what you said but how in the hell does WR out heal anything ? Rethink that one. . . . WR gives absolutely no benefit to heals - it creates a disadvantage (Glad and Rc heals both break wereform !) You can't even use a pot to fill that CON bonus form gives you ! As far as the INT vamp goes the CON/INT aelf or human can win that fight every time through skillful play and a good understanding of the vamp's mandated playstyle.

The birds are good for sure but the CON/INt scout dominates all other scouts if played well - period.
^ This

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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Dyson » Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:02 pm

still da best
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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Ripp » Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:54 pm

A good Aracoix theif, huntress, NS, templars under most circumstances should be able to kill a typical scout.

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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Cryfowl » Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:44 pm

Ripp wrote:A good Aracoix theif, huntress, NS, templars under most circumstances should be able to kill a typical scout.
There are indeed a great many toons in SB that can kill a scout - which wasn't really what this thread is about. Although in response to your post = bird thief: should not win ever against a ranged scout if played well. Huntress = 50/50 nuketress stands a better chance. NS absolutely should win if played well. Templar = 50/50 casting ones stand a better chance but a well played bow scout can indeed take them down.
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Re: Anti-scout

Post by jzl001 » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:15 am

i like scout

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Re: Anti-scout

Post by whoever27 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:31 pm

Moco wrote:a huntress....
+1

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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Vandarr » Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:31 pm

Ajushi wrote:
Cryfowl wrote:3+ years ONLY on scouts
Why would anyone do that, let alone admit to it?
Because learning to kill people on a gimp toon is very fun. Until conc pots get introduced and the nyth rune actually becomes useful, completely breaking the class once combined with instant-sneak.
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Re: Anti-scout

Post by coolstream » Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:35 pm

I think all buffs should be self buffs only (except chants)
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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Moco » Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:14 am

coolstream wrote:I think all buffs should be self buffs only (except chants)
er





no
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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Cryfowl » Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:22 pm

Vandarr wrote:
Ajushi wrote:
Cryfowl wrote:3+ years ONLY on scouts
Why would anyone do that, let alone admit to it?
Because learning to kill people on a gimp toon is very fun. Until conc pots get introduced and the nyth rune actually becomes useful, completely breaking the class once combined with instant-sneak.
Precisely.

Once upon a time scouts were actually quite rare because they were pretty gimp as a class overall. I however enjoy a challenge and once i got into them i stayed with them until i felt i had mastered the class. Only much later after many of the changes Vandarr listed did I move on to other more challenging classes.
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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Vandarr » Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:17 pm

Moco wrote:
coolstream wrote:I think all buffs should be self buffs only (except chants)
er





no
I campaigned for this in the focus group forums. In fact, until conc pots came out, I only played with non-self buffs on accident (i.e. - someone just randomly buffs me as they pass by). I have always been a firm believer that at the very least, scouts should fight as they stand. Even if everyone else is a pansy. :)
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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Darkseid » Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:23 pm

Cryfowl wrote:
Ripp wrote:A good Aracoix theif, huntress, NS, templars under most circumstances should be able to kill a typical scout.
There are indeed a great many toons in SB that can kill a scout - which wasn't really what this thread is about. Although in response to your post = bird thief: should not win ever against a ranged scout if played well. Huntress = 50/50 nuketress stands a better chance. NS absolutely should win if played well. Templar = 50/50 casting ones stand a better chance but a well played bow scout can indeed take them down.
You are delusional!
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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Shadowless » Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:53 pm

I always had good luck with my Mage Assassin.
Race: Shade
Class: Mage
Profession: Assassin
Discipline: Shroudborne

Went shade for the HoT and cold debuff. Pushed the shroudborne and shadowmastery to the highest I could get 211% with around 350 int with his int gear. Hit for 600+ per shadowbolt and healed for 350-400 on average every other second. Most scouts were dead before blindness and stun wore off. Sundancer scouts were a different story with all the stuns and powerblocks.

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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Ajushi » Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:08 pm

Bow has a 40 unit+ range advantage. Maybe you can beat an idiot scout on an MA, but you won't beat anyone who isn't drunk/Skah!. If you are alone, you will be evacing or dead.
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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Vandarr » Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:35 am

How often do you see MAs rolling around alone though? It's not duelbane.
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Re: Anti-scout

Post by ARMS » Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:56 am

some difficult nightstalker, templar, huntrees, bird vorg dagger thief, healer
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Re: Anti-scout

Post by wflsy » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:59 am

a huntress
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Re: Anti-scout

Post by ntootn1 » Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:39 pm

Agreed you say

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Re: Anti-scout

Post by yunyan1 » Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:27 am

I have a scout,named shella

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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Vandarr » Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:55 pm

I know you - NZSP bird bow.
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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Oldfart » Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:17 pm

Shadowless wrote:I always had good luck with my Mage Assassin.
Race: Shade
Class: Mage
Profession: Assassin
Discipline: Shroudborne

Went shade for the HoT and cold debuff. Pushed the shroudborne and shadowmastery to the highest I could get 211% with around 350 int with his int gear. Hit for 600+ per shadowbolt and healed for 350-400 on average every other second. Most scouts were dead before blindness and stun wore off. Sundancer scouts were a different story with all the stuns and powerblocks.

Anyone else here had great fun on their scout when shade mage assasins were so popular?

See them cast blind, stealth up, wait for blind to run out, attack with an atr cut, be free to attack for 1.5 minutes as much as you like as they can't hit you.


As for aelf vs bird scout: Birds are powerful and fun but due to stat layout combined with glass, vorg hood etc. aelfs are pretty much just as strong. Once you start becoming really good on a scout and messing with larger groups of enemies you'll soon learn being aelf is more valuable than having flight .

Yes well build resist scouts beat def scouts and thiefs. But who wants to only be able to fight them? If you want to mess with other classes you'll need def.

If you want to make a non-scout anti-scout make a centaur bow huntress. Pretty useless against anything else but great satisfaction whacking any scout that shows itself. hahaha
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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Cryfowl » Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:03 pm

Darkseid wrote:
Cryfowl wrote:
Ripp wrote:A good Aracoix theif, huntress, NS, templars under most circumstances should be able to kill a typical scout.
There are indeed a great many toons in SB that can kill a scout - which wasn't really what this thread is about. Although in response to your post = bird thief: should not win ever against a ranged scout if played well. Huntress = 50/50 nuketress stands a better chance. NS absolutely should win if played well. Templar = 50/50 casting ones stand a better chance but a well played bow scout can indeed take them down.
You are delusional!
Why so . .

Oh wait never mind did I actually ask for an opinion from WM ? LMAO I suppose you'll respond with TooT Dat or some such nonsense. I could explain exactly how and why for each of my list (I'm sure your first thought is bird thief which a bird bow scout can easily beat every time - ill give you one hint: water) but why bother.

PS how's dupe server? All that Mandarin you were forced to learn when subbed to CN finally paying off huh?
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Re: Anti-scout

Post by tooshifty » Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:17 pm

Cryfowl wrote:
Vandarr wrote:
Ajushi wrote: Why would anyone do that, let alone admit to it?
Because learning to kill people on a gimp toon is very fun. Until conc pots get introduced and the nyth rune actually becomes useful, completely breaking the class once combined with instant-sneak.
Precisely.

Once upon a time scouts were actually quite rare because they were pretty gimp as a class overall. I however enjoy a challenge and once i got into them i stayed with them until i felt i had mastered the class. Only much later after many of the changes Vandarr listed did I move on to other more challenging classes.
ahahahaha....no. When was this?

I used to run the most OP character on server. was the first thing i had as a r5 back in the day and was my main for over 3 years. You dont remember how monsterous a SD scout was? i mean i would just stand there and let flying bow scouts TRY and hurt me. It would kill templars and they couldnt even cast a single spell. everything was literally nothing to that character. Assassins were the only things i lost to 1v1 as far as i can remember, and they had to be rogue. Mage assassins were dust if i hit them first, but if they somehow got a jump on me 1v1(which never happened) then it was vice versa.
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Re: Anti-scout

Post by tooshifty » Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:22 pm

Darkseid wrote:
Cryfowl wrote:
Ripp wrote:A good Aracoix theif, huntress, NS, templars under most circumstances should be able to kill a typical scout.
There are indeed a great many toons in SB that can kill a scout - which wasn't really what this thread is about. Although in response to your post = bird thief: should not win ever against a ranged scout if played well. Huntress = 50/50 nuketress stands a better chance. NS absolutely should win if played well. Templar = 50/50 casting ones stand a better chance but a well played bow scout can indeed take them down.
You are delusional!

ya it looks that way. at least hes half right about a bird thief. scout bow bird will win if the thief is melee. Nuketress should always win now. though when i was a sd scout in the day a nuketress was fodder.
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Re: Anti-scout

Post by QuiteGoneJin » Sun Nov 09, 2014 4:45 pm

Never tried a vamp anything before and wanted to build an anti-scout scout for rune hunting. So I was thinking fleet of the foot and tough as nail and a godly int 20 dex. (55 con for 2500 ish, from what I hear the more con on a vamp above that is bad)

All resist int jewelry and tons of pierce crush resist with a proccing bow (was debating mentalist or vamp proc) and insane run speed. Is this a dumb idea? It would have a lot more int then dex for the procs/run speed/drain and the fortitude and resists focused on anti scouts seems good on paper but im bad at build making.

Trav, Strigoi, rat catcher (I think this can remove wererat form from other scouts iirc?) and idk what else.

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Re: Anti-scout

Post by DyingMoon » Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:14 am

Personally I don't like those low hp Vamps, especially if you want to fight against other scouts. You will have no use of your fortitude against other scouts if you are running high pierce resists anyway.
With 3k hp, high pierce resists, strigoi (ignore passive defense) and your drains you will easily beat other scouts anyway.

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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Coolwatersx » Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:54 am

I wonder if a disc or equipment suffix gave a bleeding damage shield that actually triggered a real bleed ... as in a DOT, would be a good "anti-scout" move. In other words, if a Scout pops and attacks, at the least he has a bleed effect on him he has to burn Glad on to re-stealth.
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