Anti-scout

Vervandi
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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Vervandi » Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:19 pm

1st off, you don't need 2 to 3 CS. You're misquoting me. 2nd, you only need to start the cast of SoS while they are in range, to start a cast is instantaneous. No matter where they run to, the dot will land if you start the cast. If they run out of range at that point, you teleport, stun, o stance, load up damage and loot a grave.
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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Ajushi » Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:25 pm

Well, I guess I must have been really lucky then, because my bow scouts weren't dying to wizards. I respect a wizard's potential to kill a scout, I'm just saying I wasn't in the slightest bit worried about initiating against a lone wizard while playing one. /shrug.
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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Vervandi » Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:39 pm

Ajushi wrote:Well, I guess I must have been really lucky then, because my bow scouts weren't dying to wizards. I respect a wizard's potential to kill a scout, I'm just saying I wasn't in the slightest bit worried about initiating against a lone wizard while playing one. /shrug.

And you still shouldn't be. Everyone plays different, and chances are most often you are not going to run into wizards doing what we are talking about. But the point of this thread is not how rad you are against bad wizards. The point of the thread was discuss anti-scouts. Most people will be satisfied to play a character that can't be killed by a scout; a class that requires little poise and little brain power to do it (Nightstalker/Huntress). What I am laying out here is a class and a strategy that will allow you to kill the scout the majority of your encounters.
“some days, some nights, some live, some die, in the way of the Jen'e'tai, some fight, some bleed, sun up to sun down, the sons of a battlecry ”

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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Ajushi » Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:11 pm

I just don't see how you are going to stop a scout from hitting sneak before you manage to dot or stun him. A little bit of head math tells me weakening + SoH won't get the job done if you are atr debuffed (you will be), unless the scout has awful def. So you are left with multiple 2 second cast counterspells to get the job done, and if a scout is stupid enough to stand there and take that, then almost any class could have done it.

No amount of "Speshul Taectics" is going to change that, only a bad scout will. So, right back at you.
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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Vervandi » Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:16 pm

Ajushi wrote:I just don't see how you are going to stop a scout from hitting sneak before you manage to dot or stun him. A little bit of head math tells me weakening + SoH won't get the job done if you are atr debuffed (you will be), unless the scout has awful def. So you are left with multiple 2 second cast counterspells to get the job done, and if a scout is stupid enough to stand there and take that, then almost any class could have done it.

No amount of "Speshul Taectics" is going to change that, only a bad scout will. So, right back at you.

Far be it for me to argue with your head math. I guess scouts are invincible. If the scout were to stealth when he was debuffed, as soon as he initiates the battle again, repeat the process.
“some days, some nights, some live, some die, in the way of the Jen'e'tai, some fight, some bleed, sun up to sun down, the sons of a battlecry ”

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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Ajushi » Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:24 pm

They are far from invincible, but you don't make a wizard to kill a scout, you make another scout.
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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Vervandi » Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:42 pm

Ajushi wrote:They are far from invincible, but you don't make a wizard to kill a scout, you make another scout.

Scouts don't kill scouts. They make them run away.
“some days, some nights, some live, some die, in the way of the Jen'e'tai, some fight, some bleed, sun up to sun down, the sons of a battlecry ”

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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Ajushi » Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:54 pm

That's another argument altogether, but it's not always the case, especially with low running gank scouts.

Maybe sneak cd should start counting down when sneak is broken, rather than when it is cast.
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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Vervandi » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:08 pm

Ajushi wrote:That's another argument altogether, but it's not always the case, especially with low running gank scouts.

Maybe sneak cd should start counting down when sneak is broken, rather than when it is cast.
Sounds like a great simple change to me.
“some days, some nights, some live, some die, in the way of the Jen'e'tai, some fight, some bleed, sun up to sun down, the sons of a battlecry ”

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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Alyriel » Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:30 pm

That's largely a meaningless change for anyone that knows how to play their scout.

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Re: Anti-scout

Post by ARMS » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:20 pm

Kally wrote:I never lost to a scout on an aelf huntress but there were times when I just couldn't catch them to finish them off :(

Stupid birds
Amazon kally
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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Dunebane » Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:47 am

Beula wrote:The UA scout idea is something I've toyed with, but the only way to get close enough to the scout should be aelfborn with the snare break. But since most scouts are birds they'll just fly up and away.

The huntress with flight and 2 sprints gets the same thing since most of them are birds so they can fly, have 2 sprints and running.

The only thing I can think of is something that has alot of dots (fessor, channy, templar, etc) that can kill them the first time they try. Maybe even a mage bard if you use alot of roots and castable snares.
Now you are onto something!

I can't believe no one else has mentioned the (sorc/ward) Mage Bard.

1) Track (you gotta have track to kill a scout)
2) AoE to reveal
3) 9 second stun
4) Snare
5) Awesome Dot
6) Nice burst DPS
7) Runecaster Heal

What more do you need?

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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Ajushi » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:21 am

1 You don't need track to kill anything
2 PPP will have like 1200 atr in precise as sorc build
3 how much warding are you going to have to land a stun while you are GM atr debuffed?
4 single rit has at best 50% uptime and molto is pbaoe
5 blood boil is terrible
6 mage bard's dmg is mediocre at best
7 Yes, a heal is nice

I don't think I have seen a solo mage bard since health regen was nerfed. Not a successful one anyway.
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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Beula » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:16 pm

Mage bards have 2 roots.
Track helps
Who would use PPP on a sorc bard? Just use the starting Magic nuke that is sorc based.
You can dispell GM ATR Debuffs fairly quickly
Dont use Molto, use Ritardando
Blood boil is terrible (I don't know what dot he's referring to)
Mage bards have amazing damage. The highest hitting magic nuke in the game if I'm not mistaken (It's just a matter of using it)
Yes heals are nice, especially when you can get 2 if you go irekei.

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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Ajushi » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:42 pm

The second root is only really useful for 1vX fights, since you are not going to need to root 1 person more than once every 10 seconds and the class one has a Skah! cast time and is only worth 1 train imo.
PPP was reference to his aoe to reveal.
MC has a 10 second cd and you will find a bow scout's atr debuff is buried quite deep, making CS worthless unless you run around without buffs.
I was saying that rit is not a reliable snare as the snare component has 15 sec duration, 30 sec recast
DD is on par with other profession nukes excepct shadowbolt in listed dps with nothing else taken into account, and slightly higher than mage bolt, but they have no expose and a lvl 20 O stance.
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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Beula » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:59 pm

Sorry got mixed up on DD and PPP. And didn't know how far the ATR debuff was buried.

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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Pollarixie » Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:24 pm

Ajushi wrote:If your winning strategy for beating other scouts is backstabbing them, I am not sure what to tell you.

I used to backstab Scouts with my Thief all the time.


If you watch the combat log all it really takes is a quick key press, and a sprint to get in their faces.

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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Reaper989 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:00 pm

My rogue ranger that heals for 450-600 with Mend Wounds? Sure, scouts might get away but they aren't killing me or a buddy.

If people want an anti-scout... have a healer follow them, a scout's DPS is terrible on anything unless they lack passive defense.

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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Beula » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:50 pm

Yeah healer's help. Thought about me and a buddy running a ________ and a priest or even 2 sac saders for Skah! and giggles.

I'm sure I've said this, but I'm too lazy to go back and check (internet's actin up) but I'm looking for something that a scout/thief cant just pellegorn and or bleed to death AND can turn around and kill the scout. Wizard/mage bard/int bow nuketress/another scout seem to be my best options.

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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Deathmarch » Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:32 pm

Sentinel is your BEST option. Only thing other than a scout that will be able to catch/reveal the other scout.

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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Pollarixie » Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:35 pm

Dirt, and I had these Badass Aelf Ww warriors. One bow, one spear. We dominated everything. Lol

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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Reaper989 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:55 pm

Deathmarch wrote:Sentinel is your BEST option. Only thing other than a scout that will be able to catch/reveal the other scout.
Get 1 centaur in travel stance, now use a group friendly ranged AoE in P stance... gg?

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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Deathmarch » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:11 pm

Reaper989 wrote:
Deathmarch wrote:Sentinel is your BEST option. Only thing other than a scout that will be able to catch/reveal the other scout.
Get 1 centaur in travel stance, now use a group friendly ranged AoE in P stance... gg?
You mean in combination? Sure, that works too, but Sentinel can do it solo.

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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Reaper989 » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:12 pm

Deathmarch wrote:
Reaper989 wrote:
Deathmarch wrote:Sentinel is your BEST option. Only thing other than a scout that will be able to catch/reveal the other scout.
Get 1 centaur in travel stance, now use a group friendly ranged AoE in P stance... gg?
You mean in combination? Sure, that works too, but Sentinel can do it solo.
Oh ya no doubt, but alot of people fail at popping a scout on a Sent. It's more fun to AoE them at range by casting from the selected area around that scout/thief/whatever :D

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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Deathmarch » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:25 pm

Reaper989 wrote:
Deathmarch wrote:
Reaper989 wrote:
Get 1 centaur in travel stance, now use a group friendly ranged AoE in P stance... gg?
You mean in combination? Sure, that works too, but Sentinel can do it solo.
Oh ya no doubt, but alot of people fail at popping a scout on a Sent. It's more fun to AoE them at range by casting from the selected area around that scout/thief/whatever :D
Definitely, I was just offering what I feel is the best solo prospect for killing a scout (besides possibly another scout). Another good tandem for scout-hunting is a Scout/Thief combo, since the thief can beat a scout in a stand-up fight and the scout can make sure a sccout don't get away.

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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Ajushi » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:46 pm

Aelf dexer bow hunty would be my choice. When catform, grace of the panther and wildkin's are up that is. Poison dot just to keep them visible. Mine was a fighter with the big kitty for CN banes and funzies, but rogue would probably be a more rounded soloer.
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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Deathmarch » Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:47 pm

Ajushi wrote:Aelf dexer bow hunty would be my choice. When catform, grace of the panther and wildkin's are up that is. Poison dot just to keep them visible. Mine was a fighter with the big kitty for CN banes and funzies, but rogue would probably be a more rounded soloer.
The scout has to engage you first, though, and no scout in his right mind would ever engage a hunty. A sentinel can force a fight whether the scout wants it or not, especially in thick-wooded areas like the swamps where the scout is choked into going between trees.

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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Ajushi » Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:53 pm

If all scouts ignore you (unlikely), you can kill them if they do try anything and you have a viable pvp char otherwise you have succeeded in your aim. That is as close to an anti scout as you will find in this game.
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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Deathmarch » Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:18 pm

Ajushi wrote:If all scouts ignore you (unlikely), you can kill them if they do try anything and you have a viable pvp char otherwise you have succeeded in your aim. That is as close to an anti scout as you will find in this game.
So yeah, I guess sentinel is the best choice, thanks for finally seeing reason!

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Re: Anti-scout

Post by Ajushi » Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:44 pm

A sent has a 15 second window to close and kill the scout before it has 15 seconds of snareless freedom to get away. I just can't see that being even a reliable option, let alone the best one.

Prove me wrong. We can theorybane all day but a trail of dead scouts will tell it better.
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