Steal Thief

pSick
Snobo
Snobo
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:27 pm

Re: Steal Thief

Post by pSick » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:48 pm

Sword > Dagger? What gives?

And what about Vamps having an advantage on Oblivion?

Amaz
Chilled Zombie
Chilled Zombie
Posts: 1634
Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 7:34 am
Location: second star to the right, and straight on till morning

Re: Steal Thief

Post by Amaz » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:03 pm

pSick wrote:Sword > Dagger? What gives?

And what about Vamps having an advantage on Oblivion?
Sword has lower powers, no healing debuff, it uses strength for everything except rapiers and scimitars, even for rapiers and scimitars the sword skill is based on str, and dagger has a power to block passive defense. A thief wont kill a healer with swords, it might with daggers.
find / -name \*yourbase\* -exec chown us:us {} \;

Cryfowl
Snow Terror
Snow Terror
Posts: 1219
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:26 pm

Re: Steal Thief

Post by Cryfowl » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:41 pm

Amaz wrote:
pSick wrote:Sword > Dagger? What gives?

And what about Vamps having an advantage on Oblivion?
Sword has lower powers, no healing debuff, it uses strength for everything except rapiers and scimitars, even for rapiers and scimitars the sword skill is based on str, and dagger has a power to block passive defense. A thief wont kill a healer with swords, it might with daggers.
when you say the sword skill is based on str do you primarily mean the ATR ? is this the same for tlans? i know that was one of the biggest goofs with the dwarven crossbow.
pSick wrote:Sword > Dagger? What gives?

And what about Vamps having an advantage on Oblivion?
yep my favorite race for a steal thief for exactly that reason : no mob aggro on oblivion.
*** DEMOLITIONS EXPERT *** LOOKING FOR GROUP *** GOOD WITH WALLS ***
Image

Khal
Snow Terror
Snow Terror
Posts: 1376
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:02 pm

Re: Steal Thief

Post by Khal » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:53 pm

Cryfowl wrote:
Amaz wrote:
pSick wrote:Sword > Dagger? What gives?

And what about Vamps having an advantage on Oblivion?
Sword has lower powers, no healing debuff, it uses strength for everything except rapiers and scimitars, even for rapiers and scimitars the sword skill is based on str, and dagger has a power to block passive defense. A thief wont kill a healer with swords, it might with daggers.
when you say the sword skill is based on str do you primarily mean the ATR ? is this the same for tlans? i know that was one of the biggest goofs with the dwarven crossbow.
pSick wrote:Sword > Dagger? What gives?

And what about Vamps having an advantage on Oblivion?
yep my favorite race for a steal thief for exactly that reason : no mob aggro on oblivion.

He's saying that sword skill % is raised by adding to str, not dex
Image
Undeadkiller wrote:Everyone is entitled to thier own opinions and shouldn't be told what they can or cannot think and or can or cannot say. It goes against the Human Rights Act.
Rewen wrote:Art thou enraged?

pSick
Snobo
Snobo
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:27 pm

Re: Steal Thief

Post by pSick » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:29 pm

I was really asking why is the build the OP posted using Swords over Daggs?

And again about going Vamp. Someone stated that they might use a Vamp race on Oblivion only because of a benefit. What's the advantage the vamp gives on oblivion? regen?

Khal
Snow Terror
Snow Terror
Posts: 1376
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:02 pm

Re: Steal Thief

Post by Khal » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:54 pm

pSick wrote:I was really asking why is the build the OP posted using Swords over Daggs?

And again about going Vamp. Someone stated that they might use a Vamp race on Oblivion only because of a benefit. What's the advantage the vamp gives on oblivion? regen?

They don't take aggro
Image
Undeadkiller wrote:Everyone is entitled to thier own opinions and shouldn't be told what they can or cannot think and or can or cannot say. It goes against the Human Rights Act.
Rewen wrote:Art thou enraged?

pSick
Snobo
Snobo
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:27 pm

Re: Steal Thief

Post by pSick » Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:45 am

jesus--I can't believe I couldn't remember that.

Khal
Snow Terror
Snow Terror
Posts: 1376
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:02 pm

Re: Steal Thief

Post by Khal » Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:47 am

pSick wrote:jesus--I can't believe I couldn't remember that.

It's been a while for all of us :P
Image
Undeadkiller wrote:Everyone is entitled to thier own opinions and shouldn't be told what they can or cannot think and or can or cannot say. It goes against the Human Rights Act.
Rewen wrote:Art thou enraged?

pSick
Snobo
Snobo
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:27 pm

Re: Steal Thief

Post by pSick » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:00 am

What kind of traits would you take as a vamp thief you think? Tough as Nails seems like a waste--as would any dex traits. Should a vamp thief be a con build?

Khal
Snow Terror
Snow Terror
Posts: 1376
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:02 pm

Re: Steal Thief

Post by Khal » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:07 am

We talking steal or pvp thief? N if you're going con-based, you joule take TaN, especially on characters with lowish con/hp returns.
Image
Undeadkiller wrote:Everyone is entitled to thier own opinions and shouldn't be told what they can or cannot think and or can or cannot say. It goes against the Human Rights Act.
Rewen wrote:Art thou enraged?

pSick
Snobo
Snobo
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:27 pm

Re: Steal Thief

Post by pSick » Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:51 pm

Yea a steal thief. Vamp.

I feel like I should take TaN and Make him Con.

Traits:
FoF
TaN

Healthy as an Ox?

Khal
Snow Terror
Snow Terror
Posts: 1376
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:02 pm

Re: Steal Thief

Post by Khal » Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:44 pm

pSick wrote:Yea a steal thief. Vamp.

I feel like I should take TaN and Make him Con.

Traits:
FoF
TaN

Healthy as an Ox?
Agreed
Image
Undeadkiller wrote:Everyone is entitled to thier own opinions and shouldn't be told what they can or cannot think and or can or cannot say. It goes against the Human Rights Act.
Rewen wrote:Art thou enraged?

unfringed
Icy Troll
Icy Troll
Posts: 884
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:28 pm

Re: Steal Thief

Post by unfringed » Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:55 am

In the current state of the CB, stealth is either bugged or simply works differently than on live. On live, provided you re-stealthed within about a second and a half, you could break stealth and re-stealth without ever becoming visible to other players, which means a thief could steal from someone and recast sneak without becoming visible and tipping off its victim. That's no longer possible. Breaking stealth for any amount of time will ALWAYS make you appear for a second, even if you were only visible for a fraction of a second to pop a stam pot, tipping off your target and making you vulnerable to opponents with spells and quick reflexes.

Also, there sometimes seems to be some kind of server lag in the processing of commands. On live, as long as your potion hotkeys were pressed before you hit stealth (even just a fraction of a second before you hit sneak) the server would process the powers in that order and the potions wouldn't break your stealth. That doesn't seem to be the case anymore. If you just rattle off two potion hotkeys and sneak, there's about a 50% chance that the server will process the powers out of order and one of your potions will break your stealth, leaving you exposed. The only way to avoid this is to wait a moment before hitting sneak, which means you're exposed even longer and it's that much easier for your opponent to target next player and hit you with a spell.

Finally, mob deaggro from stealthing is buggy as hell. If you're hitting vorg or something, or even harrassing people that are farming, a lot of the time you'll have some annoying mob that can somehow see through your stealth and is chasing you the Skah! around, giving AOErs a nice radar to your location and something near you to AOE from. The only way to fix this is to leave stealth and restealth, as even if you leave the camp and the mob recalls back, the second you run back into the camp the mob will aggro on your [fluffy bunnies] again.

Point of mentioning these things? You're going to be exposed a lot more often than on live. Plan accordingly.

Here's what you'll need to be a decent steal thief in the current CB. In addition to the obvious GM peek and steal.

High to very high defense. This will allow you to steal from macroing druids without getting exposed, and that's where a lot of your steals will be coming from. Just in the last two days I've stolen/pked around 2m in cash, a stack of runes and a pair of elite MA boots from druids, none of which would have been possible if I wasn't sure that a spiked int druid can't hit me in offensive stance (and probably not even in precise).

GM hide. I can't stress this enough, you want GM hide. It's on a 10 second cooldown and will save your life constantly. Especially if you're trying to steal from a templar or a sentinel that's spamming AOEs, since you don't have to worry about getting hit with two instant stealths in the pocket, and especially with the bugs in stealth that cause you to lose sneak at the most inopportune moments.

Fleet of foot and gold running. You want every bit of speed you can get. ESPECIALLY if you don't have flight.

Coughing gas. Don't think for a moment about skipping this power to save trains. It's your most important tool in a huge number of situations. Want to kill a high def macro druid with a ton of cash on its inventory? Power damage debuff backstab, heal resist dagger power, PD debuff, CB and CG it, the mobs will take it down for you in about 10 seconds. Want to steal from a templar that will dot you when you pop? CG right before stealing, he won't be able to touch you with his powers. You will always find a use for it.

Catlike tread. What happens when you're at vorg and two thieves are on track? Not much of anything besides staring at "X the Vorgrim Scout" until someone manages to get a friend on a scout to show up. That's why you always take sabo. Hit catlike tread, and odds are the other rogue will think you ran off to another spawn and will pop, usually pretty quickly, hoping to kill the dropper before you come back. When he does, light him up with a backstab. You don't even have to kill him (though definitely try if you can) since he won't be stealthing for a minute and will be running the hell out of there, which will give you more than enough time to kill the dropper.

It's also extremely useful when doing another favorite activity of mine; camping CN cities. I've camped enough NZSP and MorDor cities lately that all farmers know to check track before leaving safe mode, and if they see you there, they'll wait for a friend to show up on one of those generic and generally terrible CN vamp scouts. If you hit catlike tread the second you notice someone has ported in, however, they'll think you just left and will leave safe mode with all those farming goodies to PK or steal. It's especially fun since CN rogue players seem to have a habit of staying out of stealth when in their cities. Why, I have no idea, but if you see a CN scout on track in their town, odds are the use of CT will allow you to backstab that gimp. I've backstabbed several scouts over the past couple of days, and only one of them was NA.

Last, you will want flight, so birds are necessary. Full disclosure: I hate birds, and I've been playing a ground pounding thief this CB. Life is doable on the ground, but there are a lot of disadvantages. You'll never outrun a bird no matter how fast you are, you'll be unable to do anything to flyers (even unnatural flyers), and if you like camping cities as I do, you'll need to passwall in which will tip off anybody that is in the city. While there certainly are arguments for human and vampire steal thieves, bird outperforms them all sadly.

Kraggi
Snobo
Snobo
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:23 pm

Re: Steal Thief

Post by Kraggi » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:10 am

unfringed wrote:In the current state of the CB, stealth is either bugged or simply works differently than on live. On live, provided you re-stealthed within about a second and a half, you could break stealth and re-stealth without ever becoming visible to other players, which means a thief could steal from someone and recast sneak without becoming visible and tipping off its victim. That's no longer possible. Breaking stealth for any amount of time will ALWAYS make you appear for a second, even if you were only visible for a fraction of a second to pop a stam pot, tipping off your target and making you vulnerable to opponents with spells and quick reflexes.

Also, there sometimes seems to be some kind of server lag in the processing of commands. On live, as long as your potion hotkeys were pressed before you hit stealth (even just a fraction of a second before you hit sneak) the server would process the powers in that order and the potions wouldn't break your stealth. That doesn't seem to be the case anymore. If you just rattle off two potion hotkeys and sneak, there's about a 50% chance that the server will process the powers out of order and one of your potions will break your stealth, leaving you exposed. The only way to avoid this is to wait a moment before hitting sneak, which means you're exposed even longer and it's that much easier for your opponent to target next player and hit you with a spell.

Finally, mob deaggro from stealthing is buggy as hell. If you're hitting vorg or something, or even harrassing people that are farming, a lot of the time you'll have some annoying mob that can somehow see through your stealth and is chasing you the Skah! around, giving AOErs a nice radar to your location and something near you to AOE from. The only way to fix this is to leave stealth and restealth, as even if you leave the camp and the mob recalls back, the second you run back into the camp the mob will aggro on your Skah! again.

Point of mentioning these things? You're going to be exposed a lot more often than on live. Plan accordingly.

Here's what you'll need to be a decent steal thief in the current CB. In addition to the obvious GM peek and steal.

High to very high defense. This will allow you to steal from macroing druids without getting exposed, and that's where a lot of your steals will be coming from. Just in the last two days I've stolen/pked around 2m in cash, a stack of runes and a pair of elite MA boots from druids, none of which would have been possible if I wasn't sure that a spiked int druid can't hit me in offensive stance (and probably not even in precise).

GM hide. I can't stress this enough, you want GM hide. It's on a 10 second cooldown and will save your life constantly. Especially if you're trying to steal from a templar or a sentinel that's spamming AOEs, since you don't have to worry about getting hit with two instant stealths in the pocket, and especially with the bugs in stealth that cause you to lose sneak at the most inopportune moments.

Fleet of foot and gold running. You want every bit of speed you can get. ESPECIALLY if you don't have flight.

Coughing gas. Don't think for a moment about skipping this power to save trains. It's your most important tool in a huge number of situations. Want to kill a high def macro druid with a ton of cash on its inventory? Power damage debuff backstab, heal resist dagger power, PD debuff, CB and CG it, the mobs will take it down for you in about 10 seconds. Want to steal from a templar that will dot you when you pop? CG right before stealing, he won't be able to touch you with his powers. You will always find a use for it.

Catlike tread. What happens when you're at vorg and two thieves are on track? Not much of anything besides staring at "X the Vorgrim Scout" until someone manages to get a friend on a scout to show up. That's why you always take sabo. Hit catlike tread, and odds are the other rogue will think you ran off to another spawn and will pop, usually pretty quickly, hoping to kill the dropper before you come back. When he does, light him up with a backstab. You don't even have to kill him (though definitely try if you can) since he won't be stealthing for a minute and will be running the hell out of there, which will give you more than enough time to kill the dropper.

It's also extremely useful when doing another favorite activity of mine; camping CN cities. I've camped enough NZSP and MorDor cities lately that all farmers know to check track before leaving safe mode, and if they see you there, they'll wait for a friend to show up on one of those generic and generally terrible CN vamp scouts. If you hit catlike tread the second you notice someone has ported in, however, they'll think you just left and will leave safe mode with all those farming goodies to PK or steal. It's especially fun since CN rogue players seem to have a habit of staying out of stealth when in their cities. Why, I have no idea, but if you see a CN scout on track in their town, odds are the use of CT will allow you to backstab that gimp. I've backstabbed several scouts over the past couple of days, and only one of them was NA.

Last, you will want flight, so birds are necessary. Full disclosure: I hate birds, and I've been playing a ground pounding thief this CB. Life is doable on the ground, but there are a lot of disadvantages. You'll never outrun a bird no matter how fast you are, you'll be unable to do anything to flyers (even unnatural flyers), and if you like camping cities as I do, you'll need to passwall in which will tip off anybody that is in the city. While there certainly are arguments for human and vampire steal thieves, bird outperforms them all sadly.
With that in mind... How would a shade steal do? And, would you mind sharing your knowledge in building a character with me?

unfringed
Icy Troll
Icy Troll
Posts: 884
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:28 pm

Re: Steal Thief

Post by unfringed » Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:26 am

There aren't that many blind-capable characters out there, or at least there weren't a couple of weeks ago when I last had time to play. Templars are the only blinders you'll encounter regularly, and you're not going to kill them. The only thing you'd get out of shade is protection from undead mob aggro, though last I heard that was bugged and shades were getting attacked like everybody else, so you might not even get that. Everything else shades get are also available to humans.

I'd suggest human or bird if stealing is your priority. Bird for the flight, human for the extra trains due to all the extra things you'll need. If you're always on obliv (and undead mob aggro on those races is actually working as it should) you might consider a vamp or a shade, but that boon isn't that important on obliv/UDI and is nonexistant anywhere else.

Anything besides neph can be a good steal thief, it's just birds and humans are the best at it.

Kraggi
Snobo
Snobo
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:23 pm

Re: Steal Thief

Post by Kraggi » Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:48 am

unfringed wrote:There aren't that many blind-capable characters out there, or at least there weren't a couple of weeks ago when I last had time to play. Templars are the only blinders you'll encounter regularly, and you're not going to kill them. The only thing you'd get out of shade is protection from undead mob aggro, though last I heard that was bugged and shades were getting attacked like everybody else, so you might not even get that. Everything else shades get are also available to humans.

I'd suggest human or bird if stealing is your priority. Bird for the flight, human for the extra trains due to all the extra things you'll need. If you're always on obliv (and undead mob aggro on those races is actually working as it should) you might consider a vamp or a shade, but that boon isn't that important on obliv/UDI and is nonexistant anywhere else.

Anything besides neph can be a good steal thief, it's just birds and humans are the best at it.
I never liked the whole bird part either so I'll go with human. You mention to invest in defense and running. That makes sense but do I invest rather in con over dex or? And anything i need runewise? Played a long time ago and I nowdays pretty clueless.

And finally: isnt there a Thieves Guild like plater guild out there?

unfringed
Icy Troll
Icy Troll
Posts: 884
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:28 pm

Re: Steal Thief

Post by unfringed » Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:15 pm

Dex over con, and since you're training more powers than most thieves I'd recommend lower int. Yeah, you're going to need runes. And not just any runes, but really expensive runes. And really expensive gear. Thieves kind of suck that way.

Sample build, how I built my thief on preview.

Taught by Master Thief
Fleet of Foot
Lucky
Military Training
Lightning Reflexes

Bounty Hunter (could be replaced with huntsman, but I like the mage reveal and I wasn't sure if I wanted to go wererat)
Gladiator
Traveler
Saboteur

40 dex
25 con

60 int, 160 dex, 120 con. Has a leftover point I stuck into strength, since putting it into int wouldn't have raised any of my skills. Gotta warn you that bird is better in virtually every way, though. While I like to see people playing something other than birds, I don't want to convince a returning player to play something considerably less effective just because I happen to personally dislike Aracoix.
Kraggi wrote:isnt there a Thieves Guild like plater guild out there?
There are a few guilds that play rogues more than they probably should, but no, not really. Just join a regular guild.

Post Reply

Return to “Thief, Master Burglar”