Build Request: Would you kindly?

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Sinever
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Build Request: Would you kindly?

Post by Sinever » Wed May 06, 2015 7:09 pm

Hey peeps. After publicly humiliating myself on the bard forums with my absolutely atrocious aracoix spear bard build, a couple of people had suggested that I ask around for someone to show me how to 'really' make a build. So here I am, humbly asking for a build. Anything will do - I honestly think it'd be great if this ended up turning into one large collection of builds. If you want to be really cool and make a noob happy, try to take the build and incorporate these things (can just be one or, if you're a damn pro, include as many as you can):

- Uses spears
- Wears a sleeveless robe
- Uses staves
- Is an Aracoix
- Is a Shade
- Wears Irekei racial armor
- Easy solo leveling
- Would win at Stylebane
- Is regen based

Thanks ahead of time for any and all builds you guys share. I'll likely be picking one of the builds that show up here to serve as my main character and when I do, I'll make sure to tell everyone who made it.
Last edited by Sinever on Sat May 09, 2015 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Build Request: Would you kindly?

Post by Sek » Wed May 06, 2015 10:33 pm

Aracoix rogue spear dottres.

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When making it exchange Hide for Sneak, and Sneak for Stalk (confusing, yes, but that`s the only way I could put the right amount of trains into the calc).

For gear, wear 25% MA (you can go for 50% as well, it will only take 13 trains, but won`t really make a difference) and a sleeveless robe. You`ll be without a hood, though. You could also pull points out of dodge down to 90 trains, and from somewhere else as well, in order to get to 100% MA. But it still probably isn`t worth it.
Double CON rings, 10/12 CON/ 6/5 to all neck. You can get some "of the Gaana suffixes there as well, but again, it probably won`t make that much of a difference against high def toons, you will probably always need to switch into cat form to hit them (or time your stun and PB really well).

That is all. I might have overlooked something, it`s been ages since I made a hunty.

P.S. Damn you, now you made me want to play a dottres!
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Re: Build Request: Would you kindly?

Post by Sinever » Wed May 06, 2015 11:05 pm

Awesome, thanks! I wasn't expecting someone to whip out a build that nails that much of what I was looking for. Quick question though before I sit down and jump straight into leveling this, would it really drop the viability to move points into MA from dodge/elsewhere? It would open up the 100% huntress armor for Stylebane and the Aracoix racial hood.

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Re: Build Request: Would you kindly?

Post by Sek » Wed May 06, 2015 11:40 pm

Sinever wrote:Awesome, thanks! I wasn't expecting someone to whip out a build that nails that much of what I was looking for. Quick question though before I sit down and jump straight into leveling this, would it really drop the viability to move points into MA from dodge/elsewhere? It would open up the 100% huntress armor for Stylebane and the Aracoix racial hood.
It wouldn`t, really. I`d try and keep at least 90 trains in dodge.

P.S. That did cross my mind (and I did mention it), mostly for the hood. It`s kinda of a waste to leave an equipment slot empty.
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Re: Build Request: Would you kindly?

Post by tooshifty » Fri May 08, 2015 1:25 am

Sek wrote:Aracoix rogue spear dottres.

[ Image ]

When making it exchange Hide for Sneak, and Sneak for Stalk (confusing, yes, but that`s the only way I could put the right amount of trains into the calc).

For gear, wear 25% MA (you can go for 50% as well, it will only take 13 trains, but won`t really make a difference) and a sleeveless robe. You`ll be without a hood, though. You could also pull points out of dodge down to 90 trains, and from somewhere else as well, in order to get to 100% MA. But it still probably isn`t worth it.
Double CON rings, 10/12 CON/ 6/5 to all neck. You can get some "of the Gaana suffixes there as well, but again, it probably won`t make that much of a difference against high def toons, you will probably always need to switch into cat form to hit them (or time your stun and PB really well).

That is all. I might have overlooked something, it`s been ages since I made a hunty.

P.S. Damn you, now you made me want to play a dottres!
Seks hunty does not apear awsome. It would get smashed by high def toons.

i would first reccomend a bow(wind for atr and war for dmg)

Take all con runes at start and step up your int from 85 to 110. also tough as nails rune(regen+hp).

Sek has terrible jewels. You want con/way of ganna jewels and a runed of genius robe. Keep the 50%ma sides. Take way of ganna high, so much so u may need to keep dodge as low as 115-120%.

Train the gladiator atr buff if u use a war bow.

nuke the Skah! outta people.

savant is your god. The 30%bp regen is amazing, also the heal and root make u versatile in pvp.

leave the cat form at 1 train. And proc...thus undead hunter rune.

Wich bolt u hoos is up to u. I dont reccomend taking boyh as the points are better used elsewhere. The lighning is better vs casters and the ice vs melee.
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Re: Build Request: Would you kindly?

Post by tooshifty » Fri May 08, 2015 1:29 am

Aim for around 4.3khp, 2300 spell atr and 700-900 mana pool. 700 will be a tad problematic.
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Re: Build Request: Would you kindly?

Post by tooshifty » Fri May 08, 2015 1:32 am

Seks build would be closer to 4.8k to 5khp.....but you will have troubling hitting things, thus die a lot more even with 700 more hp.
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Re: Build Request: Would you kindly?

Post by Sinever » Fri May 08, 2015 1:01 pm

tooshifty wrote:i would first reccomend a bow(wind for atr and war for dmg)
While I recognize the obvious benefits of being ranged as opposed to melee, isn't spear considered the best 2h proc weapon? Thought I read that somewhere. On top of that, I lose the style points of using an underused weapon; damn bows are everywhere.
tooshifty wrote:Take all con runes at start and step up your int from 85 to 110. also tough as nails rune(regen+hp).
Did you type that wrong? If I took all con runes at the start, it wouldn't be possible to get int to 110 at character creation. Plus, his build already does this; Warlord's Page, Healthy as an Ox, and Tough as Nails.
tooshifty wrote:savant is your god. The 30%bp regen is amazing, also the heal and root make u versatile in pvp.

leave the cat form at 1 train. And proc...thus undead hunter rune.

Wich bolt u hoos is up to u. I dont reccomend taking boyh as the points are better used elsewhere. The lighning is better vs casters and the ice vs melee.
Sek included the Savant powers and already uses just one of the nukes, so that wasn't really a problem... But I'm curious about the mention of undead hunter; I know that it has Consecrate Weapon which is a proc buff, but does it stack with innately procing weapons? And if not, which of the disciplines included in this build would do you suggest swapping for it? The only one I would see being even a remote possibility would be Wyrmslayer, but that would cause you to lose out on the fantastic spear skill.
tooshifty wrote:Seks build would be closer to 4.8k to 5khp.....but you will have troubling hitting things, thus die a lot more even with 700 more hp.
Would this build really have difficulty hitting things with 172% spear and 125% Way of the Gaana? Honest questiion. Also, idk if you're considering this or not, but remember that 700 more hp when factoring in regen actually pushes effective health even higher. Plus, 700 more health is quite a lot of health when you start to consider what you can do if you're able to survive an extra hit or two; more cushion to start running, opportunity to throw out a clutch power/skill, etc... I personally would feel alot better about having a static 700 more hp over having a higher chance to hit; leaves more of the outcome in my hands and not in RNG.

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Re: Build Request: Would you kindly?

Post by Cryfowl » Fri May 08, 2015 9:47 pm

I can appreciate your desire to learn the game. In the previous thread i recommended you check into a spear dotress and i'm glad to see others agree. If you have your heart set on a a spear bird then this is definitely the way to go as it is going to be one of the single most viable spear bird cloth builds possible in the game. It will take some learning to play effectively. I'll try to answer a few more of your questions about the "why" of some of the advice you are getting here.
Sinever wrote:
tooshifty wrote:i would first reccomend a bow(wind for atr and war for dmg)
While I recognize the obvious benefits of being ranged as opposed to melee, isn't spear considered the best 2h proc weapon? Thought I read that somewhere. On top of that, I lose the style points of using an underused weapon; damn bows are everywhere.
If you want to use the spear as opposed to a bow then go for it. It is indeed the best 2H weapon choice for proccing and I'll tell you why. If you look at any weapon's sped rating in the wiki you will see a number (huntress - ice spear - speed 30.5) to understand what that means in real time simply move the decimal point 1 space to the left - so that ice spear will attack once every 3 seconds (well 3.05 seconds to be exact. There is a hard cap speed limit of 1 attk / sec so going below that is a waste (really only a concern for dagger or UA as nothing else is really capable) Keep in mind that the weapon prefix, rogue attack stance, and pot (priest buffs all grant alac and will affect the end results of your overall attack speed. So in the world of 2H weapons the spear is about the fastest 2H weapon available in game thus the best proc choice. On a hunty you get a great self alac buff too and in the world of proccing it's every bit as good as a war bow but not as good as dual wielding. The only difference is that you have a different weapon power group (bow gets two def cuts :cry: spear gets none)

High Overall proccing DPS is inherently speed dependent. This is why so many people choose proccing for UA or dagger because they can dual wield and approach the speed cap on their attacks. This gives them far more chances for a proc to go off. These types of builds RELY on proccing to win the fight. They generally do lower (than they could have had) physical damage but the sheer number of overall procs raises the average DPS over any fight nicely.

The other proccing option is using procs for burst damage. I'd recommend this for you as it compliments you build (not dual wielding). Your not going to be
attacking as fast (probably end up around 20 i would guess) and you won't get as many procs off in a fight but those you get will hit a little harder and supplement your decent physical damage.
sinever wrote:
tooshifty wrote:Take all con runes at start and step up your int from 85 to 110. also tough as nails rune(regen+hp).
Did you type that wrong? If I took all con runes at the start, it wouldn't be possible to get int to 110 at character creation. Plus, his build already does this; Warlord's Page, Healthy as an Ox, and Tough as Nails.
He is saying to take those starting runes at creation and then in game step up your INT to 110. You will need to apply +5 int, +10 INT etc. IN GAME.
tooshifty wrote:savant is your god. The 30%bp regen is amazing, also the heal and root make u versatile in pvp.
agreed savant will be mandatory for this build. I would find trains for 20 into the heal - 20 (maybe less if needed) into the MR - I into root - and 1 into stam heal.
tooshifty wrote:leave the cat form at 1 train.

yes also agreed good advice
sinever wrote:But I'm curious about the mention of undead hunter; I know that it has Consecrate Weapon which is a proc buff, but does it stack with innately procing weapons? And if not, which of the disciplines included in this build would do you suggest swapping for it? The only one I would see being even a remote possibility would be Wyrmslayer, but that would cause you to lose out on the fantastic spear skill.
if you go spear then wyrmslayer is far better choice than UH. UH isn't bad and would be better if going with a bow. But to answer your question yes it stacks. All items (weapon, jewels, armor) have three slots = prefix, suffix, enchantment and UH allows you to self cast a weapon enchant filling that last slot thus giving yourself another proc (albeit a fairly poor one). Forgemaster, nightstalker, assasin and crusader all have the ability as well.
sinever wrote:
tooshifty wrote:Seks build would be closer to 4.8k to 5khp.....but you will have troubling hitting things, thus die a lot more even with 700 more hp.
Would this build really have difficulty hitting things with 172% spear and 125% Way of the Gaana? Honest questiion. Also, idk if you're considering this or not, but remember that 700 more hp when factoring in regen actually pushes effective health even higher. Plus, 700 more health is quite a lot of health when you start to consider what you can do if you're able to survive an extra hit or two; more cushion to start running, opportunity to throw out a clutch power/skill, etc... I personally would feel alot better about having a static 700 more hp over having a higher chance to hit; leaves more of the outcome in my hands and not in RNG.
Again tooshifty is right on this point. A very common trap that noobies fall into is "more hit points is always better because it makes me live longer" I myself thought this when learning the game. It simply isn't true. Resists are always going to be more valuable to you than extra HP (which you should NOT be using on your armour !) You'll understand that a little better once you know how they work in game. During any typical fight a good resist number will prevent far more damage caused you then the meager returns of HP gained by chosing HP as suffixes on armour. The logic behind tooshifty's point is similar:
You are NOT playing a high D toon thus everyone will be able to hit you no problem. However the reverse is not necessarily true you WILL face many high D opponents (this DOTress is a very solo viable toon so many of your opponents will be high D) so the more times you miss during any fight = the more times your opponent will be hitting you. This issue is going to be vital in order for you to win fights. You absolutely need to be able to cope with this or every HIgh D opponent will roll over you without problem. If you sacrifice a little ATR for 700 more HP and you have insufficient ATR to win the fight then those 700 HP are only going to force your opponent to hit you 2-3 more times (what 10 seconds longer ? ) and then die because you still can't hit them. And 10 seconds more for clutch moves isn't going to change you STILL not hitting them

ATR is critical in this game you need to understand how it works. It boils down to this = If your ATR on any given spell or weapon attack is not equal to or greater (or within a very small margin below - less than 100pts.)than your opponent's Def rating then you basically have a 5% chance of hitting them at all. It does not scale gradually down in chances of hitting them - It falls off a damn cliff. You can either hit them almost all the time or your going to be hitting them 5% (default in the game your chances can never fall below this) of the time and LOSE. You can deal with this by having a reliable way to debuff your opponents Def or increase your ATR (keep in mind you can be debuffed here) until it's not a problem and you have long enough to inflict enough damage to win a fight.

So here are some pointers on this build: 1) Gladiator's "call of the crowd" put 20 points into it and cast it immediately after backstabbing your opponent in the beginning of each fight. 2) Use a peerless or legendary prefix on your spear 3) open fights as much as possible with Blackmask's backstab (it has baked in ATR bonus and seldom misses) 4) Get all your DOTs off as quickly as possible while under the glad buff 5) critical - I don't know why you have spear to 172 and way of ganna to 125. If you are using a huntress spear (ice lance or lightning spear) then they are based of WoG in which case i think you'd be better off ATR (and damage)wise absolutely maxing WoG and not spear. In fact 110 on spear would be minimum. there would be far more synergy with the build because your nukes, Nargal's etc all use WoG for atr as well. It's worth checking into. Also not sure how cat form will help ATr (as stated previously here in this thread) it does not have a baked in ATR bonus outside of the stat bump which won't be as vital to atr if using a huntress spear. . It's nice - im not knocking it but it's not that critical to ATR. IIRC it has a slight heal now ?? have to check patch notes but that's not listed in wiki if so. Time it right int he fight (after glad's atr buff weears off) to put it to best use.
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Re: Build Request: Would you kindly?

Post by Sek » Fri May 08, 2015 10:13 pm

tooshifty wrote: Seks hunty does not apear awsome. It would get smashed by high def toons.
a) He has Catform
b) If he times his stun and PB right, he can dot up people while their ATR cut is down, and then just bugger off. Rinse and repeat.
tooshifty wrote:i would first reccomend a bow(wind for atr and war for dmg)
The guy asked for a spear build.

tooshifty wrote:Sek has terrible jewels. You want con/way of ganna jewels and a runed of genius robe.
Nice calling out...
Sek wrote: Double CON rings, 10/12 CON/ 6/5 to all neck. You can get some "of the Gaana suffixes there as well, but again, it probably won`t make that much of a difference against high def toons, you will probably always need to switch into cat form to hit them (or time your stun and PB really well).
And then you write the same thing I did... Except for the runed robe (which I wouldn`t do, it`s pointless, you can have EITHER good health regen, or mana regen, never both).

Other than that:
Undead Hunter and the proc is VERY useful, but so is Black Mask. Pellegorn has been nerfed to hell, but even with that, it is your ONLY way of diminishing other people`s regen. I wouldn`t miss out on that.

For the ATR thing: Golding Way of the Gaana is not a bad idea, and more ATR is generally always a good idea in SB. However, this toon will NEVER hit high def toons unless it either pops catform, or avoids ATR cuts. To hit a 2k def rogue, after you have been ATR cut for 41%, you will need about 3400 ATR (give or take a few). So don`t make a big deal out of a few hundred extra ATR which won`t really make a difference. It is far more important to play this toon right.
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Re: Build Request: Would you kindly?

Post by Cryfowl » Fri May 08, 2015 10:42 pm

Sek wrote: For the ATR thing: Golding Way of the Gaana is not a bad idea, and more ATR is generally always a good idea in SB. However, this toon will NEVER hit high def toons unless it either pops catform, or avoids ATR cuts. To hit a 2k def rogue, after you have been ATR cut for 41%, you will need about 3400 ATR (give or take a few). So don`t make a big deal out of a few hundred extra ATR which won`t really make a difference. It is far more important to play this toon right.

No toon in the game can reliably hit a 2k Def rogue once they have been GM ATR debuffed at 41% unless they can counter via def debuff - which this build utterly lacks but that's a given with or without those extra HP and doesn't really matter. It's going to have to be expected when facing certain opponents and dealt with as best as possible through PB and stun. What does matter is can he reliably hit that 2k def rogue the rest of the time? - in which case yes there is a huge difference between having 1800 ATR +700 hp or 2k atr (perfectly obtainable here) and -700hp. In fact, it's the entire time he's NOT ATR debuffed that will decide if his ATR is sufficient enough to win the fight !
IMO the higher ATR is vital. The only toons capable of perma ATR debuffing you would be xbow or dagger thieves and even not them if you can out live the duration of CG after CG wears off they can only keep you atr debuffed 2/3 of the time.

P.S.
I forgot but find enough trains to fill the 2:1 training points to parry. 2 :1 is a good deal and this toon should take advantage of every single bit of PD available. edit: 000ps not a fighter hunty parry not available.
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Re: Build Request: Would you kindly?

Post by Sinever » Sat May 09, 2015 12:09 am

Such information! I'm thinking the matter of more hp vs more atr is probably gonna be something I'll have to just get a feel for myself while ingame through actually using it. Just to get an idea of how to change this build for more atr, would this be about how to do it:

- Move 19 points from Vashteera's Blessing (1/40) into Call of the Crowd (19/20)
- Move 1 point from Spear into Call of the Crowd (20/20)
- Move points from Spear into Way of the Gaana, making WotG gold
?

I feel like this is an incomplete thought on my behalf, but I'm sleepy and don't even know what's going on fully. I'll look at this again in the morning and fix whatever stupid thing I've ended up saying.

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Re: Build Request: Would you kindly?

Post by Cryfowl » Sun May 10, 2015 12:42 am

Ok - I reviewed the melee ATR formula on the wiki and I was suprised to find that WoG is not the best way to go ATR wise for you even with a Hunty spear.

Using this formula:
(Primary Stat / 2) + (Weapon Skill * 4) + (Weapon Mastery * 3) + (ATR Enchantments) * 1.stance modifier

The primary stat is actually less important than weapon trains.

so with
150WoG and 110 spear your base would be 75+440=515
with two +10 WoG suffixes on rings:
170WoG and 110 spear your base would be 85=440=525
with 125WoG and 175 spear your base would be 62.5+700=762.5

So I must retract my previous statement about maxing WoG. While your spells would have better ATR it's clearly better for the spear melee ATR to max out spear weapon line instead of WoG
NOTE- while your ATR will be higher with Spear as the focus instead of WoG ironically your max damage numbers will be slightly lower with that config.
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