Server Up Char Feedback

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Xiathys
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Server Up Char Feedback

Post by Xiathys » Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:01 pm

Hey everyone, I'm not a scout player, but I'm going to try one for server up next wipe. I'm making it UA, as I can't stand bows. I have a few ideas I've been playing with on paper, and would really appreciate any helpful feedback:

1. I'd like to make an Aracoix UA con/dex resist damage dealer. I don't think resist gear will be good for a server up char though, so I'm putting this on the back burner.
2. So it looks like it needs to be a dex/def char, which means I want a atr cut, which means Sun Dancer is the only option.

So, I'm thinking Irekei, SD, dex/def based. Now, I've heard SD doesn't do much damage, and because of the attack speed, procs are the way to go. (First, is this true, or is a straight dex/con def build going to have descent damage?). Since Aracoix get the Sky Dancer damage buff, this is another reason I'm thinking procs would be better for SD.

So, I'm thinking something like this:

-------The Basics---------

Race: Irekei
Class: Rogue
Profession: Scout

------Applied Runes-------

Blood of the Dragon (Cheaper Fleet of Foot)
Lucky
Sold to the Pits
Military Training
Lightning Reflexes
Amazing Dexterity
Black Mask
Sun Dancer
Undead Hunter
Rune Caster

----------Stats-----------

Strength: 35/85
Dexterity: 154/155
Constitution: 90/90
Intelligence: 110/110
Spirit: 15/85


Is that stat spread okay? I didn't know if it was too low in con. I'm assuming dex/int or dex/con jewelry? With procing SD weapons + Undead Hunter proc applied.

The goal is a fun server up char that can rune hunt, and solo pvp.

As a side note, for a non server up character, I'm thinking:

1. Aracoix, resist, con/dex, damage build, UA
2. Aelf, resist, con/int, proc build, UA

Any thoughts or feelings between the two?

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback!
Last edited by Xiathys on Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Reaper989
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Re: Server Up Char Feedback

Post by Reaper989 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:45 pm

Procs do quite a bit of damage to make up for listed damage loss, obviously it's a game of chance. Damage for SD is hardly low tho when built properly. It's personal preference.

With that high of int you'd definitely benefit more on a proc setup. Con is lower but can be managed. Jewelry is personal preference of course, probably con/Dex since potions will handle stamina anyways while health regen can be ideal if you swap between run/walk to abuse it to it's fullest extent.

You have to find your comfort zone when it comes to total health, as well as defensive via Dex, and obviously where you like your procs to sit... Which at 110 int you probably won't need int on jewels.

Aelfborn is nice due to the snarebreak, Immunity, and BM for extra expose.

Aracoix obviously has a damage buff which is nice but doesn't mean it's required, you can do a damage build on any scout but aracoix simply have a self-buff to help that further.

Xiathys
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Re: Server Up Char Feedback

Post by Xiathys » Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:17 pm

Awesome, thanks for the feedback @Reaper989!

So it sounds like those stats are in the right ball park. If that's the case I'll tweak from there once in game, just wanted to make sure I didn't have way too much/little con/dex/int for a defense based proccer. Interesting point on the jewelry, going for the health regen instead of stam. I definitely switch between walk/run mode when fighting, so that's a good idea.

Thanks!

Sek
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Re: Server Up Char Feedback

Post by Sek » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:11 pm

Xiathys wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:17 pm
Awesome, thanks for the feedback @Reaper989!

So it sounds like those stats are in the right ball park. If that's the case I'll tweak from there once in game, just wanted to make sure I didn't have way too much/little con/dex/int for a defense based proccer. Interesting point on the jewelry, going for the health regen instead of stam. I definitely switch between walk/run mode when fighting, so that's a good idea.

Thanks!
Definitely looks good. I`d go for int/con on the jewels, or con/con.

Int/Con if you want to be able to spam RC heal, con/con for more HP and a bit of health regen.
TSCCC IC

Cryfowl
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Re: Server Up Char Feedback

Post by Cryfowl » Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:34 pm

Judging by your statements in this thread I am assuming you are using the procs for supplemental burst damage only and not trying to rely on them solely to win the fight. Your build, stats and ideas are all solid for a def based proccer. I don't think there is any measurable difference in overall DPS between the Irekie vs bird vs. aelf ( don't neglect Human -it's a strong choice here too). All will work well for a pure damage build or a dmg/proc build about equally. IMO there isn't a strong difference in racial choice until you stray into a purely proccing build in which case human, aelf, irekie > bird. Yes the bird gets +20% to the crush dmg from skydancer but lacks the cloth hood for INT/con or con/con and thus is trading survivability and proc damage in exchange for 20% more crush damage. I honestly prefer the former.

My only suggestion on jewels is strongly consider "runed" prefix. Rogues get trash returns on SPI for mana. If you neglect MR you will find that that is your greatest weakness and will run 000 M when faced with a difficult opponent. "sacrificing one (or even 2) prefix slots in your gear set for "runed" will net you more mana returns (think of it in HP stored up in mana points) Than any amount of SPI or INT (to raise heals) building.

Another suggestion is strongly consider using Wererat / human on this without UH. WR doesn't really work well with RC heals however the stat bump - the extra (good) weapon powers - and a 30% dmg buff for the first 2/3 of every fight is worth far more DPS than a T2 proc enchantment. On a DEF/dmg or DEF/dmg/proc build. Also for the Aelf or Human you could consider Blademaster "find weakness" alone might be worth more DPS than UH's proc but might not on this build cause you'll be near the speed cap AND dual wielding (which means that UH is actually giving you 2 weapon enchants). riposte and feint are both 1 train worthy too.

You didn't list individual trains here but don't forget minimum 1 train each into glad's "call of the crowd" and especially "resist pain" both of which are great spells circumstantially.
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Xiathys
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Re: Server Up Char Feedback

Post by Xiathys » Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:27 am

Hey @Cryfowl! Thanks for the feedback :)

So, I'm glad you got into the details, it gives me a chance to over some thoughts:

1. Great call on the 'runed' prefix. My main is a nuketress, and mana is always her main issue. I'll transfer that idea over to her.
2. For a def based character (as I'm assuming is better at server up -- otherwise I always prefer resist chars), I'm assuming an ATR cut is a requirement. To be a def based char, and get def cut, but not have an atr cut in response, seems like there's no reason to be def based at all, and I might as well be a resist char from the start.

a. So, assuming an atr cut (and def cut) are requirements, that means only bow and sun dancing weapons are viable, unless you go wererat. Which, side note, can you use wererat with any weapons, including melee? It includes a def cut.
- If wererat can be used with any weapons, then only an atr cut is required (because wererat includes a def cut), and now bow, sun dancing, throwing, and daggers are viable. Piercing weapons would be required to take full advantage of wererat.

So, this leaves me to think:

1. I love aelf, but they can't use wererat, or sun dancer, so that means sub par bow damage (maybe find weakness would help a little), or poor weapon powers. This is my favorite race, but doesn't make sense for def based. For resist, I'd take this all day.
2. The options are really:
a. Irekei SD def/dmg or def/dmg/proc -- similar to what I have now. Meets the requirements, and I think will be fine for rune hunting and solo pking
b. Human wererat with bow, throwing, or daggers
- Throwing has stun and power block, I'd probably lean towards this as more valuable than ground/passive ignore (don't know how dps compares though to other weapons, which is important considering this is a def/dmg char)
- Bow has ground
- Daggers have passive ignore
c. Shade wererat, same as human.

For server up, limited gear and minimal disks is ideal. The Irekei obviously needs sun dancer, and the Human/Shade need wererat. I don't know what the competition level would be between those runes, neither are the 'major' ones people vie for from past experience. The SD gear + weapons over the desert are a nice plus for the SD. I don't know how throwing weapons are at server up. Maybe standard vorg gear for the wererat, and a bow/throwing from standard vendors?

So I don't know. Irekei def/dmg/proc, Human/Shade wererat (Shade if I can make the trains happen, Human if not) with throwing -> bow -> daggers in order of preference of weapon. Those are my thoughts at the moment, and the reasoning behind them.

Any thoughts or suggestions? I like the wererat damage potential, coupled with throwing weapon powers, although maybe it's best to just kite with a bow like normal. At the same time, I'm not afraid to take on many other rogues with a SD because of the great weapon powers (expect maybe rangers -_-).

Any feedback is appreciated, trying to nail down my starter char :)

Thanks!

Cryfowl
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Re: Server Up Char Feedback

Post by Cryfowl » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:18 pm

Xiathys wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:27 am
a. So, assuming an atr cut (and def cut) are requirements, that means only bow and sun dancing weapons are viable, unless you go wererat. Which, side note, can you use wererat with any weapons, including melee? It includes a def cut.
- If wererat can be used with any weapons, then only an atr cut is required (because wererat includes a def cut), and now bow, sun dancing, throwing, and daggers are viable. Piercing weapons would be required to take full advantage of wererat.
Yes - i would agree. Def based toons are a better choice at server up simply because A) the gear is quick and easy to obtain as opposed to resists B) Everyone on the server will struggle to raise ATR levels without R7 trainers for the first week of server up but DEF is possible from day 1. Yes DEF based toons do need some way to deal out ATR cuts (mandatory) and ideally some way to also obtain a means of def cutting the opponent. That can be done in a number of ways though - dark knight (deflars) weapon or class / disc powers as well as temporary massive ATR boosters all work here to fill that role. Dagger thieves have no Def cut other than crippling blow and coughing gas and they are viable.
Yes wererat weapon powers work with any weapon but the thing to note is that regardless of weapon WR powers are all melee casting distance NOT ranged. Ages ago i figured out what is the highest possible DEF any rogue could possibly get and it turns out to be shade / with WR and the vorg bow. I don't think that has changed.
Xiathys wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:27 am

For server up, limited gear and minimal disks is ideal. The Irekei obviously needs sun dancer, and the Human/Shade need wererat. I don't know what the competition level would be between those runes, neither are the 'major' ones people vie for from past experience. The SD gear + weapons over the desert are a nice plus for the SD. I don't know how throwing weapons are at server up. Maybe standard vorg gear for the wererat, and a bow/throwing from standard vendors?
You are not going to find throwing weapons off mobs. it's far easier to find various DEF LA and bows. Last server up i aquired a full set of LA better to or equal than the def SDR gear for sale in under 48 hrs just from me active leveling. Daggers even UA are possible. but throwing simply isn't going to happen you have to count on buying those. As for the DISCs WR should be fairly easy. Sundancer only a little harder. I imagine you should get either in 48 hrs. I got WR first day last server up (and was actually struggling to kill the r4 mob lol)
Xiathys wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:27 am
Any thoughts or suggestions? I like the wererat damage potential, coupled with throwing weapon powers, although maybe it's best to just kite with a bow like normal. At the same time, I'm not afraid to take on many other rogues with a SD because of the great weapon powers (expect maybe rangers -_-).
WR bow is going to be easiest at server up. SD is probably my 2nd choice. i would save to dagger chucker until i had access to forges for the gear factor alone - you will never loot decent ones of those.
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Xiathys
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Re: Server Up Char Feedback

Post by Xiathys » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:11 pm

@Cryfowl Perfect, makes complete sense! One last question to throw out there -- how would you think dagger compares to bow? If both Find Weakness *and* the Wererat powers require melee range, and those powers make up a significant portion of DPS and utility. It sounds like you'd have run in, execute the powers, and run back out. I'm assuming daggers are comparably as easy to find farming as a bow as well (which may not be correct)?

Also, Wererat backstab could be fun :)

Thanks!

Anklebiter
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Re: Server Up Char Feedback

Post by Anklebiter » Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:44 pm

Wererat form will break from backstab as it a "spell" not a power

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Re: Server Up Char Feedback

Post by Cryfowl » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:39 am

Anklebiter wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:44 pm
Wererat form will break from backstab as it a "spell" not a power
It does break form but it still goes off . . . . . .
easy enough to cast the other form immediately. Lot's of things don't work well with WR form. I normally only count on it for the first 2/3 of any fight. RC heals break it too.
Xiathys wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:11 pm
@Cryfowl Perfect, makes complete sense! One last question to throw out there -- how would you think dagger compares to bow? If both Find Weakness *and* the Wererat powers require melee range, and those powers make up a significant portion of DPS and utility. It sounds like you'd have run in, execute the powers, and run back out. I'm assuming daggers are comparably as easy to find farming as a bow as well (which may not be correct)?

Also, Wererat backstab could be fun :)

Thanks!
either are fairly easy to farm. no difference there. just because you have a bow doesn't mean you always must kite it's not hard to dash into range for those powers plus the WR dmg buffs works on you anywhere. however now you know why you should never let a WR in form close to melee distance lol 8-) (if you didnt before)
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