Non-bird, non-vamp bow scout

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Sek
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Non-bird, non-vamp bow scout

Post by Sek » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:09 am

Well, I just can`t figure out one.
I need to roll a scout due to the scoutbane. However, I absolutely despise bird rogues. I also kinda don`t want to play vamp scout (had it back in the day, didn`t like it).
I`ve been trying to figure out a viable template that uses a bow, isn`t a bird or vamp, and I just can`t do it.
I also thought about Shade Wererat, but that thing is basically melee range, so that is a no go.

Help me!

edit: Actually, I just got an idea. Would still like other ideas/propositions though.
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Re: Non-bird, non-vamp bow scout

Post by Amaz » Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:46 am

Human resist proc bow scout, all int/con build.

UH/Runecaster/Glad

70+ pierce resists, heals for 150ish a cast, big procs, nice bleed, gold running and dodge :)
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Re: Non-bird, non-vamp bow scout

Post by Telemakus » Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:06 pm

Amaz wrote:Human resist proc bow scout, all int/con build.

UH/Runecaster/Glad

70+ pierce resists, heals for 150ish a cast, big procs, nice bleed, gold running and dodge :)
Yep, human scout. You don't have to go resist based, you can go human int/dex build with 80ish con. Get 2k def and still have decent hp with con rings. Resists wont be great until you get ideal gear. But if you're sold on just resists, roll yourself a few dwarf hone bots.
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Re: Non-bird, non-vamp bow scout

Post by ScrappyDoo » Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:58 pm

Telemakus wrote:
Amaz wrote:Human resist proc bow scout, all int/con build.

UH/Runecaster/Glad

70+ pierce resists, heals for 150ish a cast, big procs, nice bleed, gold running and dodge :)
Yep, human scout. You don't have to go resist based, you can go human int/dex build with 80ish con. Get 2k def and still have decent hp with con rings. Resists wont be great until you get ideal gear. But if you're sold on just resists, roll yourself a few dwarf hone bots.
Resist build with 70+ resists in pierce if you go 5/5 pierce on all pieces with 5/WLs, but like Telemakus said thats only ideal if you have the exact gear needed otherwise your resists will be sub par, dodge doesn't work as great as it once did in live imo. I like shade dex/con builds personally over human or you can even go aelfborn for snare immunity to add to your survivability. I rolled a shade proc int/con build with rat catcher, runecaster, glad, UH. I'm working on getting resist gear for it but for the time being I'm in def gear and can still get 2050def and my rune caster heals go for mid 200s.
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Re: Non-bird, non-vamp bow scout

Post by Sek » Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:48 pm

Amaz wrote:Human resist proc bow scout, all int/con build.

UH/Runecaster/Glad

70+ pierce resists, heals for 150ish a cast, big procs, nice bleed, gold running and dodge :)
I like that.
Might go for Aelfborn over human. This toon is supposed to be played in small scale GvG as well.
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Re: Non-bird, non-vamp bow scout

Post by Cryfowl » Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:49 pm

Sek wrote:
Amaz wrote:Human resist proc bow scout, all int/con build.

UH/Runecaster/Glad

70+ pierce resists, heals for 150ish a cast, big procs, nice bleed, gold running and dodge :)
I like that.
Might go for Aelfborn over human. This toon is supposed to be played in small scale GvG as well.
I prefer the human version over the Aelf. Those extra trains are a wonderful help in maximizing ATR and IMO that's more valuable than the snare break. You need to hit them even when ATR debuffed in order to win with this toon. Once you learn how to play it well you'll never die to another bow scout again unless maybe it's your twin (or using a vorg bow although using just a little poison resist and your Attk speed debuff goes a long ways towards these cause their attk is so slow)

You can even make the same template with T-Dags although you'll get fewer kill spam cause the birds will fly up to escape you. . They can't kill you and when they figure it out they always evac which you can't prevent but IMO that's still a win. Although it is usually a much faster win against all the other races because the Attk speed (hence proc rate) is so much faster
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Re: Non-bird, non-vamp bow scout

Post by Malachai » Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:03 pm

What about a Bladeweaver Scout?

No idea if it's viable or not... seems like elf con might be way too low.

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Re: Non-bird, non-vamp bow scout

Post by Cryfowl » Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:25 pm

Malachai wrote:What about a Bladeweaver Scout?

No idea if it's viable or not... seems like elf con might be way too low.
It's a novelty toon at best. 99% of the other scouts you run up against in the field are going to be bow and are NOT going to let you close in to melee range so you'll spend most of the fight snared (no snare break on elf dooh!) and trying to catch a kiter.Add to that no way in which to ground (or cast on fliers). Also While you could get fair Con (by using up all your starting traits for con) it's not going to be spectacular and no where near the 5k a human proc scout can get. last but not least after taking INT to 120 ish for heals / procs you ll have precious little left over for dex (assuming tlans) and thus fairly crappy ATR with no other ATR boosts outside of Glad's (which isn't enough cause it's a once a fight spell). Con/int proccers win through attrition bottom line. Elves lack the staying power. It would be far more viable in small group 3v3 open treee setting than solo.
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Re: Non-bird, non-vamp bow scout

Post by Vandarr » Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:54 am

I had an absolute blast with my 50 con high def elf bow scout last phase. It was great in 1v1 scenarios, but as soon as you get in a 2v1, you're toast. The human build Amaz mentioned has the potential to get lucky and win against two opponents, but against two the elf is almost a guaranteed loss regardless of how incompetent your foes are.
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Re: Non-bird, non-vamp bow scout

Post by Cryfowl » Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:07 pm

Vandarr wrote:I had an absolute blast with my 50 con high def elf bow scout last phase. It was great in 1v1 scenarios, but as soon as you get in a 2v1, you're toast. The human build Amaz mentioned has the potential to get lucky and win against two opponents, but against two the elf is almost a guaranteed loss regardless of how incompetent your foes are.
Sounds cool. I'd go elf bow over BW any day.
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Re: Non-bird, non-vamp bow scout

Post by Verbin » Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:53 am

Shade int/con pierce res suit. 12 con/poison rings, 12 con/holy or unholy neck. RC, Glad, BlackMask, UndeadHunter. Peerless of Proc war bow. Train RC personal elemental res and heal.

Not going to release my start runes, that's what sets me apart but this build owns bird bow scouts. Want to flat destroy bird bow scouts and stand up to huntress? Fess bot poison res and lighting res jewels. With DA you will out regen most huntresses damage. :) your mana is tight, know when to spam RuneCaster and when not to.
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Re: Non-bird, non-vamp bow scout

Post by Verbin » Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:18 am

As in all things there is a counter to everything. Be wary of rat catcher aelfborn scouts. It will shred the shade res proccer. And btw wereform isn't melee range (or wasn't my last tenure here) dex whore shade wererat still kicks major bird behind. Downside to wereform rogues is you break form if you use BlackMask passwall. Wich a counts for 40% of my kills vs thieves and scouts. And if you can't get rolled gear vorg bow is dumb on a wererat since he gets an expose.

So basically the type of scout you play boils down to forge access IMO
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Re: Non-bird, non-vamp bow scout

Post by Cryfowl » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:04 pm

Verbin wrote:As in all things there is a counter to everything. Be wary of rat catcher aelfborn scouts. It will shred the shade res proccer. And btw wereform isn't melee range (or wasn't my last tenure here) dex whore shade wererat still kicks major bird behind. Downside to wereform rogues is you break form if you use BlackMask passwall. Wich a counts for 40% of my kills vs thieves and scouts. And if you can't get rolled gear vorg bow is dumb on a wererat since he gets an expose.

So basically the type of scout you play boils down to forge access IMO
The debuff component of Wereform weapon powers is indeed almost melee range (perhaps just a tad bit longer - it's the same as the blademaster expose) however the damage component of the weapon powers is not ranged. I've done the wererat proc build before and to tell you the truth I never thought that WR complimented a proc build very much. it was a useful 4th Disc and all but IMO WR is more Def/Dmg oriented.

It's refreshing to see another scout player using advocating blackmask on a bow scout. It's pretty damn useful and not just for the free passwall
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Re: Non-bird, non-vamp bow scout

Post by Verbin » Sat May 17, 2014 1:16 am

Cryfowl wrote:
Verbin wrote:As in all things there is a counter to everything. Be wary of rat catcher aelfborn scouts. It will shred the shade res proccer. And btw wereform isn't melee range (or wasn't my last tenure here) dex whore shade wererat still kicks major bird behind. Downside to wereform rogues is you break form if you use BlackMask passwall. Wich a counts for 40% of my kills vs thieves and scouts. And if you can't get rolled gear vorg bow is dumb on a wererat since he gets an expose.

So basically the type of scout you play boils down to forge access IMO
The debuff component of Wereform weapon powers is indeed almost melee range (perhaps just a tad bit longer - it's the same as the blademaster expose) however the damage component of the weapon powers is not ranged. I've done the wererat proc build before and to tell you the truth I never thought that WR complimented a proc build very much. it was a useful 4th Disc and all but IMO WR is more Def/Dmg oriented.

It's refreshing to see another scout player using advocating blackmask on a bow scout. It's pretty damn useful and not just for the free passwall
I dont play WR at all anymore :) However, i took rat catcher on my shade proccer recently and its stupid how fast birds die :) I was saying if you cant get a good proc bow, dmg WR is decent, i must have not seperated the ideas well enough, because proccer wererat sucks, reproccing and losing form is annoying. But yes black mask is retarded useful. Most underused rune for ranged toons.

Back on main thread topic: If you go shade, get holy res. People are using sader and stalker bots to proc bows on vamps lately. Not very effective vs any races but vamp/shade and a cheap way to win. If this fad catches on, Aelf and human will become the best solo bow scouts hands down. Also if you plan to win in solo pvp and you go def, you won't get the returns of resist gear IMO. And on Aelf and Humans, 12con/35 regen - poison res is the way to go, so that random vorg bow bird has 0 chance against you.

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Re: Non-bird, non-vamp bow scout

Post by Pollarixie » Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:16 pm

I have an elf Int/Con build that I've been using to kill bad scouts.

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Re: Non-bird, non-vamp bow scout

Post by tooshifty » Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:15 pm

Verbin wrote:
Cryfowl wrote:
Verbin wrote:As in all things there is a counter to everything. Be wary of rat catcher aelfborn scouts. It will shred the shade res proccer. And btw wereform isn't melee range (or wasn't my last tenure here) dex whore shade wererat still kicks major bird behind. Downside to wereform rogues is you break form if you use BlackMask passwall. Wich a counts for 40% of my kills vs thieves and scouts. And if you can't get rolled gear vorg bow is dumb on a wererat since he gets an expose.

So basically the type of scout you play boils down to forge access IMO
The debuff component of Wereform weapon powers is indeed almost melee range (perhaps just a tad bit longer - it's the same as the blademaster expose) however the damage component of the weapon powers is not ranged. I've done the wererat proc build before and to tell you the truth I never thought that WR complimented a proc build very much. it was a useful 4th Disc and all but IMO WR is more Def/Dmg oriented.

I dont play WR at all anymore :) However, i took rat catcher on my shade proccer recently and its stupid how fast birds die :) I was saying if you cant get a good proc bow, dmg WR is decent, i must have not seperated the ideas well enough, because proccer wererat sucks, reproccing and losing form is annoying. But yes black mask is retarded useful. Most underused rune for ranged toons.

P.S. Fessor Bot.
your proc lasts as long as your wereform. Just proc before you form up and its all good. I have a pure proc wererat and it...so far...has not lost to another scout yet. ....granted against a very good scout i have to break form and heal myself. There are a lot of good scouts out there. There are also a lot of bad ones....lol...
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Re: Non-bird, non-vamp bow scout

Post by Badmoon » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:38 am

Sek Im going to show you my equastro clone scout.
Youll never lose to a bird/vamp again. Ill hit you up via vent tonight.
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Re: Non-bird, non-vamp bow scout

Post by Pollarixie » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:29 am

My elf works as well as that Human build.

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Re: Non-bird, non-vamp bow scout

Post by Cryfowl » Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:56 pm

Pollarixie wrote:My elf works as well as that Human build.
I've tried it before and it will work although the Aelf/human versions are simply more survivable. After all Con is the primary Stat and INT is only secondary. I also don't like having to spend ALL my starting traits on Con just to get a marginally good HP pool when i can get a great one plus a couple other start traits with the human.
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